Definitive answer on large seedlings!

[Salaam]

So many years of novice gardening and I have yet to reach a definitive conclusion on whether the larger the seedling the earlier the harvest. Some local seedling sellers always carry large four or five foot seedlings in large pots promising an earlier harvest. I've occasionally bought one, but I'm not sure I got much of an earlier harvest. My understanding is that the weather cycle including transplant shock is the factor that works against a large seedling producing early. Everything being equal. Is it possible to get a significant early harvest without a greenhouse or something to increase the temperature?

Discussion?

[nctomatoman]

Too many variables, from my experience. I've just had great luck doing things the way I've done them for decades - well rooted, well hardened seedlings that are 6-8 inches tall - they adjust quickly and do fine. The thing to keep in mind - indeterminate tomatoes, once they really catch on, grow upward and outward 2-3 inches per day. That rapid, vigorous growth tends to completely neutralize slight differences early on. As for the variables - weather, hours of sun, location, ground or container, type of container, how you treat them (watering, food) - and those as well tend to wash away slight distinctions in seedlings early on.

[loulac]

Originally Posted by nctomatoman

Too many variables, from my experience. I've just had great luck doing things the way I've done them for decades - well rooted, well hardened seedlings that are 6-8 inches tall.

Very intersting. Could you give details about the size of the pots you use for the seedlings before planting them ? you may transplant them in seeveral pots of increasing sizes before the last transplant.


All the best

[PaulF]

I agree with Craig. I have planted 8 inchers and 24 inch plants and the smaller seedlings, IF healthy and stoutly stemmed will catch up quickly. Bigger, spindly plants are harder to handle and seem to break branches more often. I think I like 10-12 inch sizes best.

[KarenO]

I think it makes a big difference where you live and what circumstances you have available as far as starting seedlings. For example, in your Canadian garden doing things the same way someone in a longer season area does theirs may not be as successful. The difference in varieties grown are innumerable and no one method works for each person.
I have a small backyard greenhouse and for myself I aim for big vigorous and often budding transplants but it’s the greenhouse that makes that possible so I can hold big transplants in good conditions until it is warm enough to plant them out. Waiting for Warm temperatures outdoors especially adequate night time temperatures before transplanting out is really important as they will settle in and take off much faster than if they are in cold ground in cold weather. There are a great many variables as Craig says and each of us find our own methods.
For myself large budded vigorous transplants put out in good weather in good soil, take off without a hitch and I always expect ripe large tomatoes before the end of July in my Canadian garden both in the Edmonton area previously and now out on the west coast in a pnw maritime climate and as far as varieties go, many of my best successes have been with eastern European heirlooms and my own crosses bred for my Canadian gardens Neither area I have lived in is nearly as good for tomato growing I would say as the Ottawa area in southern Ontario.
It can be done and big transplants of Midseason varieties planted in good conditions work for me for significantly earlier ripe tomatoes in my gardens
KarenO

[Milan HP]

I'd say that the colder climate zone the more developed seedlings we should plant in the garden if we want to have an early harvest. And really wait for warm soil.

My story from last year: my garden is at 570 m/1,870ft a.m.s.l. in Zone 5b but I live in Zone 6a at app 500ft. The weather in April was very nice so I took the risk and planted some of my seedlings on Apr 7. I thought I'd have early harvest in mid-June. And then a cold wave came and lasted over 3 weeks. I managed to keep them alive, but they were pretty much set back. The other seedlings of mine fluctuated between my balcony and flat. And some of them grew to be 3 foot 5. They were in full bloom and some even had small fruits. I got the first ripe tomatoes on my name day (June 18) from those terribly overgrown seedlings planted on May 17, not from those I planted in April - those gave me first fruit only 2 weeks later. I admit transportation was a bit of a nightmare but it was manageable and the seedlings caught up quite fast as I put some 2' of the stem in the ground.

So, for me it isn't a matter of how tall they are but of what stage of development they are in. On the other hand I know that in warmer climates and other conditions this is useless. There probably isn't a definitive answer for all growers. It all depends on conditions and how well we can adjust our methods to them.
Milan HP

[Wi-sunflower]

I want to second the comments on conditions. Where I live we don't plant before June 1 due to often getting late frost before then. But at that point things are often fairly warm and plants take off. But 1 year we planted and then June turned cool and wet and by the end of the month the plants looked just about the same as they did when planted. Survived but didn't thrive.

Something that you can do to help is when you plant, put a large cage around the plant. Like a wire rebar cage people make. Anchor with a fence post or 2. Then wrap the cage with clear plastic around the sides but not the top. Add several bottles of water inside the cage around the plant. This will create a mini greenhouse for the plant and the water will give off some heat at nite. If the nite temps look like they could get low, you cover the top with plastic or a blanket to keep more heat inside but be sure to open it back up when the sun gets temps up above freezing. Works great.

Carol

[zipcode]

Older seedlings will give an advantage, but only as long as they are vigurous, with nice broad leaves and roots actively growing. Which is difficult to achieve and possibly not worth the effort (or space/costs, etc).

[Fusion_power]

Tomatoes have a strong transition from juvenile growth to the adult reproductive phase. This transition is triggered by being rootbound which pushes the plant to flower and set fruit. A plant that has a load of fruit when set out will rarely grow as large as a rapidly growing seedling that is still in the juvenile phase. I always caution strongly against setting out large 2 ft to 5 ft tall plants that have been grown in 1 gallon pots. These plants are rootbound and will almost always be less productive than a similar plant in a 5 gallon container.

I give 2 standard recommendations:
1. In long season areas, set out small but healthy and rapidly growing seedlings from 6 to 12 inches tall. These give best results and usually produce the most fruit.
2. In shorter season areas and/or to have earlier ripe fruit, set out larger plants that are in a minimum 5 gallon container. These plants can be difficult to manage, but will produce earlier and just about as much fruit as a small seedling in a long season climate.

[biscuitridge]

Originally Posted by Fusion_power

Tomatoes have a strong transition from juvenile growth to the adult reproductive phase. This transition is triggered by being rootbound which pushes the plant to flower and set fruit. A plant that has a load of fruit when set out will rarely grow as large as a rapidly growing seedling that is still in the juvenile phase. I always caution strongly against setting out large 2 ft to 5 ft tall plants that have been grown in 1 gallon pots. These plants are rootbound and will almost always be less productive than a similar plant in a 5 gallon container.

I give 2 standard recommendations:
1. In long season areas, set out small but healthy and rapidly growing seedlings from 6 to 12 inches tall. These give best results and usually produce the most fruit.
2. In shorter season areas and/or to have earlier ripe fruit, set out larger plants that are in a minimum 5 gallon container. These plants can be difficult to manage, but will produce earlier and just about as much fruit as a small seedling in a long season climate.

Totally agree!!

[Milan HP]

Originally Posted by Fusion_power

Tomatoes have a strong transition from juvenile growth to the adult reproductive phase. This transition is triggered by being rootbound which pushes the plant to flower and set fruit. A plant that has a load of fruit when set out will rarely grow as large as a rapidly growing seedling that is still in the juvenile phase. I always caution strongly against setting out large 2 ft to 5 ft tall plants that have been grown in 1 gallon pots. These plants are rootbound and will almost always be less productive than a similar plant in a 5 gallon container.

I give 2 standard recommendations:
1. In long season areas, set out small but healthy and rapidly growing seedlings from 6 to 12 inches tall. These give best results and usually produce the most fruit.
2. In shorter season areas and/or to have earlier ripe fruit, set out larger plants that are in a minimum 5 gallon container. These plants can be difficult to manage, but will produce earlier and just about as much fruit as a small seedling in a long season climate.

I couldn't agree more. That's a perfectly practical summary.

As I am a small amateur gardener who doesn't sell a single tomato (the surplus always goes to my friends as a present) I am much more concerned with early harvest than with the yield. And of course I'd like the season to finish as late as possible. Hence my focus on late blight resistant varieties. One thing I can't afford is 5-gallon containers as I grow my seedlings at home: not enough space. So they have to live on what they can get.
Milan HP

[b54red]

i agree that smaller seedlings from 7 to 9 inches seem to shock less and grow faster. The one exception is grafted plants which most of mine are. In that case plants from 10 to 14 inches tall usually do much better because they have had more time for the graft to heal properly and take on the rigors of the garden. Since I got my seed started late this year I will be setting out some non grafted plants early in hopes that the long colder than normal winter will help with the fusarium wilt problem. If it doesn't I will have lost nothing except for some earlier than normal tomatoes and will just have to wait for the grafted plants to start producing.

Bill

[Salaam]

Originally Posted by Fusion_power

Tomatoes have a strong transition from juvenile growth to the adult reproductive phase. This transition is triggered by being rootbound which pushes the plant to flower and set fruit. A plant that has a load of fruit when set out will rarely grow as large as a rapidly growing seedling that is still in the juvenile phase. I always caution strongly against setting out large 2 ft to 5 ft tall plants that have been grown in 1 gallon pots. These plants are rootbound and will almost always be less productive than a similar plant in a 5 gallon container.

I give 2 standard recommendations:
1. In long season areas, set out small but healthy and rapidly growing seedlings from 6 to 12 inches tall. These give best results and usually produce the most fruit.
2. In shorter season areas and/or to have earlier ripe fruit, set out larger plants that are in a minimum 5 gallon container. These plants can be difficult to manage, but will produce earlier and just about as much fruit as a small seedling in a long season climate.

Do I understand correctly that the key variable is rootboundness? If so, the key is knowing (approximately of course) at what "plant height to container size ratio" a plant becomes rootbound. I see an assumption that 12 inch plant may well start getting rootbound in a one gallon container. Is that right?

[Fusion_power]

It is borderline for a 1 gallon container to produce a rootbound 12 inch seedling. A 12 inch seedling in a 1 gallon container will usually be 12 inches wide. This is the largest size tomato plant I grow and sell from my greenhouse. I don't ship them, but some people want larger started plants so I grow them and sell locally.


One caution, the plants I grow are regularly stimulated by brushing across the tops. This makes them shorter, stockier, and bushier as compared to plants grown using other methods.

[KarenO]

five gallon potted seedlings?
Ok ...
Northern gardeners can try it my way
KarenO