A new method ~

[Tomstrees]

This year I'm doing somehting different, and that is:
After my fall garden prep. I did not over-turn my garden this spring. I just dug holes for my tomato / pepper seedlings; I then mulched with straw and seaweed.

I wanted to see if I could reduce soil borne problems.

Has anyone had success with "no-till" gardening ?

~ Tom

[Sherry_AK]

I've been using the no-till method for a few years now. I'm a believer. The only time I turn the soil is where it's become compacted from me walking on it to plant/weed/water.

[Worth1]

Tom,
I don’t even own a tiller and never have.
One of my girl friends said she hoed right up to the stalks and I told her that was more than likely the cause of her BER.
(((((((Tearing up the roots.))))))))))
Before I plant I just use a grubbing hoe to turn up the soil. Then rake it out smooth.
And that is to clear out the weeds.
A tiller would beat me to death with all of these hard base ball sized river rocks.
I like the hole method/I need bigger holes.

Worth

[bryanccfshr]

Tiller? We don't need no stinking tiller!

Set up the beds so you never walk on the planting surface and never leave the soil naked to the elements. Cover that soil and don't walk on it. It's easy to keep weed free and to dig holes and amend the soil when it is time to plant.

[dcarch]

Originally Posted by Tomstrees

This year I'm doing somehting different, and that is: After my fall garden prep. I did not over-turn my garden this spring. I just dug holes for my tomato / pepper seedlings;----------
Has anyone had success with "no-till" gardening ?
~ Tom

Well, using my hole digger, I am doing extreme deep-hole this year. 36" deep. So far so good.

A picture today:


dcarch

[Tomstrees]

yeah Dcarch you're right, Daconils a better solution to soil problems ... Sounds like something I'd want my little ones in contact with in my garden while sampling cherry tomatoes drenched in the stuff; not to meantion the environment ...

~ Tom

Brand Name:Ortho Multi Purpose Fungicide Daconil 2787 Plant Disease ControlOther Codes:EPA Reg. No: 239-2522Form:liquidProduct Category pesticides >> Fungicide >> vegetables
Pesticides >> Fungicide >> trees, fruit
Pesticides >> Fungicide >> ornamentals
Pesticides >> Fungicide >> lawn/turf
Pesticides >> Fungicide >> flowers
Customer Service No.:800-225-2883Date Entered:2001-05-08 Related Items:Products with similar usage in this databaseManufacturer Manufacturer:Solaris Group, TheDiv.,ScottsAddress PO. Box 5008City:San RamonState:CAZip Code:94583Toll Free Number:888-295-0671Date Info Verified:2003-01-01 Related Items:Products by this manufacturerHealth Effects
Enter text or highlight term...
The following information (Health Effects, Handling/Disposal, and Ingredients) is taken from the product label and/or the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) prepared by the manufacturer. The National Library of Medicine does not evaluate information from the product label or the Material Safety Data Sheet.Warning from
Product Label:CAUSES EYE AND SKIN IRRITATION
- DO NOT GET IN EYES, ON SKIN, OR ON CLOTHING
- MAY CAUSE A TEMPORARY ALLERGIC EYE OR SKIN REACTION
- MAY CAUSE A TEMPORARY ALLERGIC RESPIRATORY REACTION
- KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN
Acute Health Effects:From MSDS:
POTENTIAL HEALTH EFFECTS
EYES: This substance causes eye irritation. May also cause a temporary allergic reaction characterized by redness and swelling of the eyes. Eye irritation may also include redness, swelling and discomfort, tearing and blurred vision.
SKIN: This substance causes skin irritation. This substance can cause a temporary allergic skin reaction in some individuals characterized by swelling, redness or rash on exposed skin areas.
INGESTION: Ingestion may cause irritation of the digestive tract. Digestive tract irritation may include nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. If swallowed, this substance is considered practically non-toxic to internal organs.
INHALATION: Breathing spray mist may cause a temporary allergic respiratory response or mild bronchial irritation.
Chronic Health Effects:MSDS: Breathing spray mist may cause a temporary allergic respiratory response or mild bronchial irritation.Carcinogenicity:MSDS: GENERAL COMMENTS: This product contains chlorothalonil. The carcinogenic potential of technical-grade chlorothalonil (97%) has been tested in two rat studies and one mouse study. It was reported to cause an increased incidence of malignant and/or combined malignant and benign kidney tumors in both sexes in both rat studies and in male mice. In addition, increased incidences of malignant forestomach tumors were observed in both sexes of mice and in female rats in one study. Based on the results of these studies, chlorothalonil has been classified as a B2 carcinogen by the US EPA. There is no epidemiology data classifying chlorothalonil as a human carcinogen.First Aid:MSDS: FIRST AID MEASURES

EYES: Hold eye open and rinse slowly and gently with water for 15 to 20 minutes. Remove contact lenses, if present, after the first 5 minutes, then continue rinsing eyes. Call a poison control center or doctor for treatment advice.
SKIN: If on skin or clothing, take of contaminated clothing. Rinse skin immediately with plenty of water for 15 to 20 minutes. Call a poison control center or doctor for treatment advice.
INGESTION: If swallowed, call a poison control center or doctor immediately for treatment advice. Have person sip glass of water if able to swallow. Do not induce vomiting unless told to by a poison control center or doctor. Never give anything by mouth to an unconscious person.
INHALATION: Move person to fresh air. If person is not breathing, call 911 or an ambulance, then give artificial respiration, preferably by mouth-to-mouth, if possible. Call a poison control center or doctor for further treatment advice.
Health Rating:2Flammability Rating:0Reactivity Rating:0HMIS Rating Scale:0 = Minimal; 1 = Slight; 2 = Moderate; 3 = Serious; 4 = Severe;
N = No information provided by manufacturer; * = Chronic Health HazardMSDS Date:1996-06-05 Handling/Disposal Handling:MSDS: HANDLING AND STORAGE
GENERAL PROCEDURES: Keep pesticide in original container. Do not put concentrate or dilute into food or drink containers. Avoid contamination of feed and foodstuffs. Store in a cool, dry place, preferably locked storage area.

ENVIRONMENTAL DATA: No data available.
ECOTOXICOLOGICAL INFORMATION: This material is toxic to aquatic organisms and should be kept out of sewage and drainage systems and all bodies of water.
Disposal:MSDS: PRODUCT DISPOSAL: If necessary to dispose of partially filled product container, securely wrap it in several layers of newspaper and discard in trash.
EMPTY CONTAINER: Do not reuse container. Rinse thoroughly before discarding in trash.
Ingredients from MSDS/Label ChemicalCAS No / Unique IDPercentPropylene glycol000057-55-6Chlorothalonil001897-45-629.6Inert ingredients (unspecified)999999-00-270.40

[dcarch]

Tom,
Interesting info.

dcarch

[bryanccfshr]

I won't get into the Daconil-vs- organic debate but I have never used daconil. I am loosing 3 large Big boys plants not to disease but to 2,4d!!!! MY NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR USED WEED AND FEED. 1

[amideutch]

Tom, been using actinovate this season as a foliar spray and when I transplanted my seedlings I sprinkled some in each hole. So far so good. Also when I brew my compost tea I add it to the tea during the brewing process and then use as a foliar spray and a soil drench. Good stuff. Ami

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by bryanccfshr

I won't get into the Daconil-vs- organic debate but I have never used daconil. I am loosing 3 large Big boys plants not to disease but to 2,4d!!!! MY NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR USED WEED AND FEED. 1

I don't mean to hammer anyone that uses the stuff but if I had the money I would buy out Scott's and close down the company

Austin Texas has many springs and streams that are constantly polluted by folks using this garbage and other deadly chemicals on their yard.

This has been a known problem for years!!!!!

The people that build out in west Austin put in large homes on a rock pile then put down Saint Augustine sod on top of this.

Then they have to water and fertilize all year long to keep it alive.

Everything is on a hill around here so every time their bless id automatic sprinkler comes on all of this poison washes into the streams.

It's a waste of water to say the least.
Lake Travis is a mud hole compared to what it used to be.
Sure it is full now but thats only because we have had A LOT OF RAIN.

So what happens when it drys up and we go on water rationing to the point that we cant grow tomatoes?
Just because a bunch of folks want to have a golf green for a yard.
Its coming soon with all of the urban sprawl going on and every yard has a lawn.

One little yard may be 1/4 of and acre but you take into account all of the houses and you have 1,000's of acres of grass with with all of this water being wasted on it and lord knows how many barrels of toxic waste being put on it.

If a train load of this poison were to spill it would be a
catastrophe, and thats what is being put out every year, 'train loads.

If you read the label on this stuff and do as it says, you cant use it.

Sorry for the rant, I'm just as guilty as the rest on some of this stuff.

I'll back down now, I just get stirred up sometimes.

Now, 'what was this thread about?

Soon to be dictator of Texas.

Worth

[dcarch]

There are many sides to any issue. One has to take into all considerations and put things in the proper perspective and proportion. Extreme views serve to polarize and always counterproductive.

I think organic v.s. non-organic is important to study because of some non-reversible effects to the environment. But I think mostly we are talking about the immense commercial applications. As for most of us backyard gardeners, as far as the environment is considered, (not talking about personal health) the result is very negligible. (I understand everything adds up).

For me, I will experiment with many techniques just because I am curious, and I am having fun. I do take extra precautions whenever I have to use chemicals or questionable techniques.

I posted in another thread the consideration of using UV to sanitize the environment, which is 100% non-polluting, and a technique commonly used, I was very surprised and disappointed at the some reactions from some of the members. So I had to stop the thread.

I am experimenting the following regarding Daconil,

I am using an ultrasonic mixer to mix the solution. The manufacturer indicates the solution (a suspension) lasts about six hours. I seem to have found that the solution lasts much longer if it’s mixed with the ultrasonic mixer. I am curious if the ultrasonically mixed solution is more potent (therefore you can use a lot less) because it is much more homogeneous.

I am considering the use of electrostatic spraying technology for spraying Daconil. Plants, stems and leaves, are electrically conductive. Electrostatic sprayer will drastically eliminate over-spray, and the nice thing is that it will coat the underside of the leaves at the same time. I think 85 % of Daconil is wasted using the normal sprayer.

So Guys, Have fun! We are here to eat great tomatoes, and to find out how we can have plenty of them.

dcarch

[amideutch]

dcarch, your electostatic sprayer sounds interesting. You have any links for more information on them. Your thread on UV had merit and is used quite extensively in hydroponics for controlling the pathogens in the nutrient solution. Also works great for ponds for controlling algae. Unfortunately it is beyond the scope of most hobby gardeners. As I said previously I'm using Actinovate this year and having good results so far. Ami

[Tomstrees]

AMI !!!
How's it growing with this stuff ?
Sounds great !

~ Tom


Actinovate® SP is a high concentration of a patented beneficial bacterium on a 100% water soluble powder. This powerful new product effectively suppresses/controls a wide range of soil borne diseases including Pythium, Phytophthora, Fusarium, Rhizoctonia, Verticillium and other root decay fungi..

Actinovate® SP is also labeled as a spray application for foliar diseases (when appled as a spray) such as Powdery and Downey Mildew, Botrytis, Alternaria and others.

In fact, when used as a preventative, researchers have seen Actinovate® SP work as well or better than most chemicals.

The benefits of Actinovate® SP don't stop there: Because of the special properties of the Actinovate® microbe, plants treated with Actinovate® SP will be vigorous, have increased vitality and have much better root growth. Actinovate® SP contains the microorganism Streptomyces lydicus strain WYEC 108.

When introduced into the soil this microbe colonizes and grows around the root system of plants. While settling in the root's rhizosphere the microbe forms a synergetic relationship, feeding off of the plant's waste materials while secreting beneficial and protective by-products. This combination of the colonization and the protective secretions forms a defensive barrier around the root system of the plant which in turn suppresses and controls soil pathogens. S. lydicus also has been shown to prey on certain pathogens, disrupting their cell walls and disabling them in the process. Finally, the by-products of the Actinovate® microorganism also aid plants in complexing minerals and micronutrients found in the soil, allowing easier uptake and, thus, creating a stronger, more robust plant.

This symbiotic relationship between plant and microbe is the optimum balance for a natural, productive soil environment. Actinovate® SP makes it happen

[dcarch]

Originally Posted by amideutch

dcarch, your electostatic sprayer sounds interesting. You have any links for more information on them. -----

I don't have links on this topic. I think it's easy to Google and you'll get tons of info. The technology is used widely (painting cars, for instance). The principle is simple: electrically charge the particles and they will be attracted to adhere to oppositely charged surfaces.

My idea is to get a high voltage generator (low current, so there will be no danger) and hook it up to the spray nozzle with one pole, and charge up the plants (thru the soil) with the opposite charge and spray away.

A high voltage generator can be salvaged from a household electrostatic air cleaner.

dcarch

[bigbubbacain]

Originally Posted by amideutch

dcarch, your electostatic sprayer sounds interesting. You have any links for more information on them. Your thread on UV had merit and is used quite extensively in hydroponics for controlling the pathogens in the nutrient solution. Also works great for ponds for controlling algae. Unfortunately it is beyond the scope of most hobby gardeners. As I said previously I'm using Actinovate this year and having good results so far. Ami

Ami:
YES YES YES! Thank you for mentioning Actinovate SP! I've been using it for years now and whenever I try to tell others about it they think I'm crazy. In my personal experience, I have much better disease control when I apply it as a soil drench. A lot of people have high regard for the Mycorrhizae organisms, but I have better results with Streptomyces-like that in Actinovate. Try it in a soil drench, and re-water the following day. Watering with a weak solution of molasses and kelp will help to feed the organisms.