Leaves Drying from the bottom Up, HELP!

[Banadoura]

I have an issue that is mind boggling, the plants I seeded a month ago have gotten to a point where the bottom leaves dry up and fall before the whole plant starts curling on itself.

Here's how it starts:
Notice how the dryness spreads from the leaf to the whole branch.




the dried leaves crunch between your fingers....

Then this is happening (at least with my Whiskey Jack variety)




I don't think my WJ plants will survive long enough to get planted outside....

I'd like to believe that my plants are comfy in their container, get fed with the blue sutff and in theory have enough light thanks to two T5 bulbs but the reality says otherwise, something is wrong!

Theory number 1: could it be my T5 bulbs?
Today I read that there should be at least 4 inch between the plants and the light, my plants were closer than that but that does not explain the problem starting from the bottom.


Theory number 2: Excess fertilizer? I am using the all purpose blue stuff that you dilute in water. I read that the feeding should be spaced at 2 weeks. My plants get on a average 1 feeding per week. Could it be that there's too much N?


Theory number 3: UV burn? Behind the curtain there's a window, could the UV rays be burning those leaves? a little bit far fetched?

Theory number 4: Would not having a fan trigger something!?

What do you think?

Thanks

[Koala Doug]

My first thought, due to the curling/twisting of the branches, is too much moisture. Another reason could be too much fertilizer... or a combination of the two.

Inspect the stems/branches, as well as the underside of the leaves, for little white blisters - I thought I saw some in the pictures. If you do see them, it is an edema (or more specifically, an intumescence).

Check for that first and let us know what you find.


Edit: It's not your lights or the distance between the lights and tops of the plants. I keep mine about 1-2 inches from the tops... and I use T5 HO lights.

[Goodloe]

I concur w/ Doug. At what strength are you mixing the fertilizer? For seedlings that size, I use MG Blue at somewhere b/w half and one third strength....

Jon

[Banadoura]

@Doug @Goodloe thanks for providing your feedback.

My last feeding was 2 tsp for 1.75L (full strength), I guess this made things worse.

Would running a fan for 12 hrs/day help with the moisture? or do I need a dehumidifier to tackle this?

[Koala Doug]

A fan would be helpful.

Can you confirm any small, white blisters on the underside of the leaves (especially the older leaves)?

[TexasTomat0]

I'm with Koala Doug - looks like fertilizer burn to me from too much N. Give them some straight water. The leaves that are burnt are goners and you can take them off the plant. We always want to push more fertilizer but often over do it. I'd lay off the fert and then start back up with a half dose in a week or 2.

I also agree, doesn't look like light burn.

[TexasTomat0]

The easiest way to combat moisture would be to water less..

[Goodloe]

I water from the bottom. Maybe straight water from the top would help flush em out? Just a thought...

Jon

[Koala Doug]

Here is an example of what I believe to be a 'blister' (for lack of a better word) caused by an edema (too much water). This is a close-up of one of your images you posted - it also appears that the veins close to that spot are raised and swollen:

[Banadoura]

@koala and I thought I had watering under control

I had already switched into just watering with no ferts this week, so most of the plants will survive except maybe for the WhiskeyJacks as they proved to be oversensitive (or call it getting too much love as I wanted them to be the best)

Will check for those edemas once I get home but it looks like you already caught them!

[Koala Doug]

I'm almost 100% sure your plant's problem is too much water (not too much fertilizer). But on that note, I thought I saw a tell-tale Miracle-Gro round fertilizer ball in one of your pictures. If that is the case, then you'll have to be careful to not give them too much fertilizer as the mix already has some in it.

Keep a fan on them - that'll help speed up the evaporation from the potting mix. If you can slightly raise the containers so some air flow can get underneath (where, I assume, there are holes in the bottoms of the pots), that should also aid a tiny bit in drying out the over-saturated growing medium.

Your plants can recover... but the affected leaves will not. The twisted stems/leaves will stay that way. The leaves with the dying tips might fully die off. But the future new growth will be normal if the moisture problem is rectified - so there is hope!

[bower]

Originally Posted by Koala Doug

Here is an example of what I believe to be a 'blister' (for lack of a better word) caused by an edema (too much water). This is a close-up of one of your images you posted - it also appears that the veins close to that spot are raised and swollen:

The thing KDoug circled looks like an aphid to me - and that would explain the curling too.

I don't know anything about the blue stuff ferts so I can't comment on that.

The lower leaf issues look to me like it's too damp, and not enough light. I would definitely open the curtain if there's a window, and give them some sun and natural light. Also spread them out a bit more and give them air, or just cut your losses and be prepared to remove those lower leaves if you have to keep them crowded together a bit longer. It is better to remove anything funky looking IMO, a dead leaf for any reason is just a hotel for trouble.

Don't know if you're having a late (or lousy!) spring like so many others. I know if I found aphids indoors, I'd want to put the plants straight out the door. Sometimes it's harder on the pests than it is on the plants (here that's the rule, anyway). If it doesn't freeze, the Whiskeyjacks would likely survive (and straighten out, hopefully! Okay, wishful but.. you never know ).

[carolyn137]

I don't like the black area on the lower stem on one of the pictures on one plant, I saw just one,or are there other stems that show that as well,since I am thinking of a particular disease that can happen,not a common one. Is this affecting ALL of your seedlings or just some,and are any of them heart varieties?

Carolyn

[bower]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

I don't like the black area on the lower stem on one of the pictures on one plant, I saw just one,or are there other stems that show that as well,since I am thinking of a particular disease that can happen,not a common one. Is this affecting ALL of your seedlings or just some,and are any of them heart varieties?

Carolyn

I see what you mean, Carolyn... that looks nasty. Is it pythium? I googled and that's what came up that looks like it.
And yes, that one is a heart.

[KarenO]

Looks fungal to me. Grey mold possibly. They do not look over fertilized, rather they look pale and over watered.
How soon until you can get them some sun and warmth?


KarenO