would someone compare/contrast Costuluto Genovese & C. Fiorentino?

stormymater · January 8, 2009

I get HOT & HUMID summers & would love a mater that capitalizes on these climatic realities. I planned on getting C. Genovese but thought I'd get some advice from more experienced tomato folks before pulling the trigger. Thank you - I have been here just a short while but have learned a lot I'm putting into practice in the insectarium I call the garden out back.

natural · January 8, 2009

Both varieties produced well. The plants were very healthy.

Genovese was a little smaller and more ribbed.

The problem for me is that the flavor of both was rather bland. I will not grow them again.

Bill

Worth1 · January 8, 2009

I asked about Costoluto Genovese 2 years ago and I got the same answer.
((Bland)), but I liked it, everybody else liked it and this will be my 3rd year to grow it.
It put out lots of fruit does well in the heat and it sure tastes better than any store bought tomato.
To me it has a rich tomato flavor without a lot of tartness.
Maybe it’s the Texas climate that makes it taste good to me.

I am also a sucker for ruffled tomatoes.
I have also found that is you let it get to a full rich red color it tastes much better.
Everyone should try this one at least once.

If it works well in this heat then I will continue to grow it until something better comes along. (That is ruffled of course.)

Costoluto Fiorentino is a sore subject this is the 3rd year I have forgot to grow it.

Worth

stormymater · January 9, 2009

you folks are simply awwwwesome. I am planning on growing Old Brooks & Chesapeake to punch up tartness for sauce. I too am a sucker for ribbed ruffled beefsteak tomatoes.
I've read being parsimonious with water is important - I've got loamy sand with too fast drainage actually being the issue here. oh & did I mention blazing glaring sun? Lottsa, lottsa steamy heat & sun?

montanamato · January 9, 2009

Costoluto Genovese likes the dry heat here too....Many years ago it was my main tomato and filled tons of quart jars....I still find it tasted fine and production is usually mush better than most varieties I am growing at the same time...A winner by me.

Jeanne

Old Brooks is another good one.

stormymater · January 9, 2009

oh Maontanamato - you take me back to the early 80s - going to UM & digging raised beds in (former) Lake Missoula lake bed. Actually had an eggplant bloom & fruit - neighbors were agog! Easiest place I have ever been for brussels sprouts, kolrhabi, peas & yes, even collards (neighbors definitely gawked at my garden).

**carolyn137** · January 9, 2009

Costoluto means ribbed, and the various Costolutos are named for the various areas they come from, such as Fiorentino ( Florence), Genovese ( Genoa) and others.

I agree with those who say they don't taste that good and suggest growing other varieties if for sauce or whatever. And I don't mean necessarily apste tomatoes, since in my experience and the experience of lots of others, with few exceptions past tomatoes don't have great taste.

many use just meaty great tasting varieties for sauce.

And there are lots and lots and lots of threads here on the subject of paste tomatoes and sauces, etc. Same for canning tomato varieties that many like to use.

stormymater · January 9, 2009

Thank you! I had read somewhere the Costolutos were great flavorsome cooking tomatoes, but fresh eating, not so much. I am drawn to their purported disease resistance & hot weather vigor (pretty needed traits if a mater wants to hang in my yard). Hmmm, how do y'all feel about San Marzano Redorta, Scatalone (name makes me giggle) or Carol Chyko paste?
I know results vary & taste is individual but certain characteristics seem to be recognized about different types & I do appreciate each person's opinion... so like, thanks.

**carolyn137** · January 9, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormymater

Thank you! I had read somewhere the Costolutos were great flavorsome cooking tomatoes, but fresh eating, not so much. I am drawn to their purported disease resistance & hot weather vigor (pretty needed traits if a mater wants to hang in my yard). Hmmm, how do y'all feel about San Marzano Redorta, Scatalone (name makes me giggle) or Carol Chyko paste?
I know results vary & taste is individual but certain characteristics seem to be recognized about different types & I do appreciate each person's opinion... so like, thanks.

Stormy, I'm, not aware of any special disease tolerance of any of the Costolutos. Which diseases are you concerned with.

As to hot weather tolerance, again, I don't see that folks who have posted about them consider them anything special about hot weather tolerance and although I've grown them my zone 5 area I don't have high sustained temps.

Of the other ones you mention I've only grown Carol Chyko paste and I don't consider it a paste tomato b'c it's too juicy, and I feel the same way about Amish Paste for the same reason.

If you want to grow paste tomatoes for cooking, for sauces, here are a few that I think work well and there are others as well:

Mama Leone
Opalka
Heidi
Martino's Roma

But again, I do think that growing any great tasting variety that's meaty and has few seeds is a better way to go. Just cook down the sauce a bit more to the desired consistency. And some folks combine pastes with the better tasting non-pastes.

stormymater · January 10, 2009

we have some kind of early blight here - took out sweet cherries (but not grape or beefsteaks) last summer in mid-july. Started at the bottom of the plants & yellowed them out upwards over a few days - withered. I am still learning what is what & know we have all sorts o mildews that seem to come in later (during prime tropical storm time). I dunno what the blackish mold/moldew was that climbed up some tomato trunks - some outgrew it but others didn't - when it grew out onto leaves on the goners it had greyish mycellium - ?fruiting bodies?. Needless to say these plant were jerked out & consigned to the woods - not the compost pile. Would have burned them but we have to much wind to safely burn (even with the heat & humidity).

creister · January 11, 2009

Try Sioux or Super Sioux, and maybe even Porter, all do well in high heat.

montanamato · January 11, 2009

Costoluto Genovese sets better in heat for me than Sioux, but I have no humidity to speak of...
I have never seen any variety set fruit in dry heat like Cost. Gen. Often I have 80 or 90 varieties to compare it to and it has never failed to set oodles...Sauce from it is very nice...
I am not in the camp that believes all sauces are equal made with whatever is ripe...
I am guilty of cooking those sauces too, but for me they are worlds apart...
I like a concntrated RED sauce from red tomatoes that when reduced is the right flavor and consitency to barely coat good quality pasta...Most tomatoes that taste good fresh, simply don't reduce to what I consider a proper Italian taste ....I like to can tomatoes whole and don't like most of my jar space filled with water...
Most pastes/plums were meant to be sauced and while some can be eaten fresh,they shine when cooked...I guess that idea is hard for most Americans...
I have found the taste of a raw tomato has very little to do with a cooked sauce...
Raw salsa seems strange tasting to me when made with sweet, juicy tomatoes...I think salsa is best made with tomatoes that have a bit of acid punch to hold up to the other ingredients...
Anyway, back to Cost. Gen. It is prolific ,and even though a juicier tomato than many cooking toms, it makes wonderful rich sauce...

Jeanne

stormymater · January 11, 2009

Got Sioux, Traveller, Creole, Homestead 24, Mule Team, Black from Tula, Tropic & Gulf State Market based on multiple opinions read about heat/humidity tolerance, vigor & tastiness (always about the tastiness! LOL).
Also have Cherokee Purple, Black Pear & Jeff Davis so we shall see. Was trying to decide on the Costulutos but may add in the Italian Red Pear from Franchi instead.

stormymater · January 11, 2009

My concern is always our heat & humidity that can shrivel, sizzle & cook plants. After determining I had to water 3 to 4x a day to keep hanging baskets (even when lined with plastic or old woolens) viable I planted surviving catnip in the ground. Even with the cat attacks it fared better there than midsummer in the baskets.
When I read opinions/experiences with plants I always consider where the author is from climatically. Those Italian pears originate from northern Italy - different in oh so many ways from my "cusp o' da jungle" insectarium here. Which gives me pause. I am such a wimp about tearing things out of the garden - instead doing surgery to remove those nasty viscous enshrouded vine boring grubs & trying to mend things... so I really try to select those that seem to have a better chance from the start (knowing I will keep putzing along).

remy · January 12, 2009

Hi Stormy,
I grew both of them last summer. Unfortunately, last summer was rainier than normal and not so hot so I really can't say how they would do. I thought they were bland on flavor also.
I did grow Italian Red Pear, Gransasso strain from oh, I'm forgetting...not Franchi, the Italian seed company start with a B. Anyway, it was a very hot dry year, hottest ever here(so maybe like your regular summer.) The plants did very well, they were very vigorous. The tomatoes were very meaty, paste like, but I thought they tasted very good.
Remy

January 8, 2009	#1
stormymater Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Pleasure Island, NC 8a Posts: 1,162	would someone compare/contrast Costuluto Genovese & C. Fiorentino? I get HOT & HUMID summers & would love a mater that capitalizes on these climatic realities. I planned on getting C. Genovese but thought I'd get some advice from more experienced tomato folks before pulling the trigger. Thank you - I have been here just a short while but have learned a lot I'm putting into practice in the insectarium I call the garden out back.

January 9, 2009	#7
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	Costoluto means ribbed, and the various Costolutos are named for the various areas they come from, such as Fiorentino ( Florence), Genovese ( Genoa) and others. I agree with those who say they don't taste that good and suggest growing other varieties if for sauce or whatever. And I don't mean necessarily apste tomatoes, since in my experience and the experience of lots of others, with few exceptions past tomatoes don't have great taste. many use just meaty great tasting varieties for sauce. And there are lots and lots and lots of threads here on the subject of paste tomatoes and sauces, etc. Same for canning tomato varieties that many like to use. __________________ Carolyn

January 12, 2009	#15
remy Buffalo-Niagara Tomato TasteFest™ Coordinator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Z6 WNY Posts: 2,354	Hi Stormy, I grew both of them last summer. Unfortunately, last summer was rainier than normal and not so hot so I really can't say how they would do. I thought they were bland on flavor also. I did grow Italian Red Pear, Gransasso strain from oh, I'm forgetting...not Franchi, the Italian seed company start with a B. Anyway, it was a very hot dry year, hottest ever here(so maybe like your regular summer.) The plants did very well, they were very vigorous. The tomatoes were very meaty, paste like, but I thought they tasted very good. Remy __________________ "I wake to sleep and take my waking slow" -Theodore Roethke Yes, we have a great party for WNY/Ontario tomato growers every year on Grand Island! Owner of The Sample Seed Shop

January 8, 2009	#2
natural Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: North GA Posts: 530	Both varieties produced well. The plants were very healthy. Genovese was a little smaller and more ribbed. The problem for me is that the flavor of both was rather bland. I will not grow them again. Bill

January 8, 2009	#3
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	I asked about Costoluto Genovese 2 years ago and I got the same answer. ((Bland)), but I liked it, everybody else liked it and this will be my 3rd year to grow it. It put out lots of fruit does well in the heat and it sure tastes better than any store bought tomato. To me it has a rich tomato flavor without a lot of tartness. Maybe it’s the Texas climate that makes it taste good to me. I am also a sucker for ruffled tomatoes. I have also found that is you let it get to a full rich red color it tastes much better. Everyone should try this one at least once. If it works well in this heat then I will continue to grow it until something better comes along. (That is ruffled of course.) Costoluto Fiorentino is a sore subject this is the 3rd year I have forgot to grow it. Worth

January 9, 2009	#5
montanamato Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Montana Posts: 1,038	Costoluto Genovese likes the dry heat here too....Many years ago it was my main tomato and filled tons of quart jars....I still find it tasted fine and production is usually mush better than most varieties I am growing at the same time...A winner by me. Jeanne Old Brooks is another good one.

January 10, 2009	#10
stormymater Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Pleasure Island, NC 8a Posts: 1,162	we have some kind of early blight here - took out sweet cherries (but not grape or beefsteaks) last summer in mid-july. Started at the bottom of the plants & yellowed them out upwards over a few days - withered. I am still learning what is what & know we have all sorts o mildews that seem to come in later (during prime tropical storm time). I dunno what the blackish mold/moldew was that climbed up some tomato trunks - some outgrew it but others didn't - when it grew out onto leaves on the goners it had greyish mycellium - ?fruiting bodies?. Needless to say these plant were jerked out & consigned to the woods - not the compost pile. Would have burned them but we have to much wind to safely burn (even with the heat & humidity).

January 11, 2009	#11
creister Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Abilene, TX zone 7 Posts: 1,478	Try Sioux or Super Sioux, and maybe even Porter, all do well in high heat.