Beer Brewing leftovers

matereater · February 8, 2009

My son brews his own beers and I got to thinking about the leftovers from the process, i.e barley, hops, yeast? Would these be OK to add to my compost bin? Seems like it would but I thought I read somewhere that some grains were not a good idea because of specific types of molds that may grow on them during the composting cycle.

mresseguie · February 8, 2009

Hi, Steve.

I'll tell you my experience with brewing leftovers followed by the warnings I was given.

Let's see..a couple years ago I was given a couple hundred pounds of the stuff (wort?? mash??) from a local microbrewery. It was pretty sour smelling and had the consistency of cooked oatmeal. I went ahead and mixed it into a small composting windrow (20' L x 4' W) of organic matter I was 'cooking' up. I let that sit for about two months before I forked it all onto my beds. I'd been concerned about the acidity and/or anaerobic nature of the mash, but I used it nonetheless. Isn't ignorance a great aid?

Well, when I forked over the composted material to my beds, I discovered a kazillion worms--some of which were the thickest worms I'd ever laid eyes upon. My neighbor let out a "Holy s###!" when she saw the worms. (I'd never heard her swear before, so it was quite a treat.)

That year's vegetables were the lushest, healthiest, and best producing those beds had ever produced.

How much of an impact that mash had on the quality of the compost I will never know for sure. There were also leaves, dairy manure, llama manure, garden waste, newspaper, and grass clippings in that windrow.

Months later I asked an extension agent about the mash, and she said it's too anaerobic to be useful. That's why it smelled like baby vomit when I got it. (Sorry to be so graphic, but that's what it reminded me of.)

Personally, I'd say go ahead and use it as long as it doesn't constitute more than 15% or 20% of your compost pile. Spread it through out the pile. Make sure there are adequate bulking materials to absorb the liquid (leaves, straw, wood chips). Then give it enough time to compost fully.

Good luck!

Michael

stormymater · February 8, 2009

So... ah Michael, tell me before I post a "wanted - leftover brewing mash/wort" on Freecycle - since this stuff sounds like a gi-normous baby gack (hairs on back of my neck raising & goose bumps forming) - how in the world did you get it to your composting beds? I had a horrible vision of this stuff in the bed of my old pickup - never to ever be fully gotten out but am so intrigued because of the worms (earthworms as in Annelids, right?).
Found this interesting article about vermiculture & it mentions grains, etc. as good food for worms -
http://www.bae.ncsu.edu/topic/vermic...earthworms.pdf

mresseguie · February 8, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormymater

So... ah Michael, tell me before I post a "wanted - leftover brewing mash/wort" on Freecycle - since this stuff sounds like a gi-normous baby gack (hairs on back of my neck raising & goose bumps forming) - how in the world did you get it to your composting beds? I had a horrible vision of this stuff in the bed of my old pickup - never to ever be fully gotten out but am so intrigued because of the worms (earthworms as in Annelids, right?).
Found this interesting article about vermiculture & it mentions grains, etc. as good food for worms -
http://www.bae.ncsu.edu/topic/vermic...earthworms.pdf

Stormy,

Hahaha! Blind enthusiasm and years of stubbornness saw me through the experience. I loaded the mash into 14 and 18 gallon Roughneck totes, capped 'em, and loaded them onto my pickup. Once at the garden, I used my wheelbarrow to move one (still with lid firmly on!!) tote to the windrow at a time. Then I dumped the mash onto the windrow and forked it into the composting material.

I rinsed the totes with a loooong stream of water. My pickup never even noticed.

Come to think of it......I guess the mash didn't smell quite as bad as my son's vomit after all. Then again, it has been 16 years since I had to smell his vomit, so......

Earthworms? Yes. Very well-fed monsters. The neighbor lady told some of her friends. I got visitors for a week after that who wanted to see the dinosaur worms.

I like that link! Thanks.

When I want power growth from my vermicomposting worms, I feed them either of two mixes. The first is 2 parts chicken scratch, 1 part alfalfa meal, and 1 part oyster meal (for grit). The other mix uses 2 parts ground oatmeal instead of the chicken scratch. The reds go into feeding frenzy mode with that stuff. I buy 20 to 40 lb bags of the materials at a feed store.

I'm still trying to find the perfect bedding mix. I get huge quantities of coffee grounds for composting, so I tried some. I haven't noticed the reds' enthusuasm for the stuff even though I've read they like it.

Michael

kygreg · February 8, 2009

I bet not only did you have kazillion worms, but they were happy worms, feeling no pain at all.

stormymater · February 8, 2009

I do my level best to produce as much coffee ground as possible - used to be I could get it from Starbucks by the big silver bagful (around 20#). Down where I am the local coffee shops have told me the Health Dept. prohibits them from having a sack of grounds - it all goes into their general trash to be hauled off... what the...? So it's up to our household & my caffeine addicted neighbor to generate the grounds.
Freecycle has actually been a helpful resources for compostables down here. Most folks who are mowing themselves don't seem to use junk in their lawns - my concerns are persistent pesticides (think Bayer products) & herbicides so that is good. Once I get my new raised beds assembled & ready for the year I think I may post a "Wanted" for leftover brewer's mash though. It could be a good though stinky amendment to clippings & horse manure. I sure do like seeing those big nightcrawlers when I turn my pile o' compost!

mresseguie · February 9, 2009

Stormy,

Isn't the Health Department wonderful? (Notice the invisible 'dripping with sarcasm' 3D graphics in the background.) Give this a try: Ask to speak with the manager of each Starbucks. Ask them if they can set the plastic bags of grounds beside the dumpsters to facilitate your picking them up. Mind you, you'll have to pick them up regularly so the bags don't pile up. Another idea that works well here is to supply the stores with clean 5-gallon buckets (with lids). The employees fill 'em up, cap 'em, and you pick 'em up every evening or every 2 or 3 days. You drop off clean buckets to replace the now full buckets. Take full buckets home, empty them, and rinse 'em out, let dry for next pick up/drop off.

There is a huge operation in Eugene, Oregon, and a very small one here in Corvallis that both do this to very good effect. The Health Dept. is fine with it. I'm either too lazy or too busy (your choice) to use the buckets, so I pick up the plastic bags beside the dumpsters. These are not the silver bags the grounds are shipped in. They are 32 gallon (?) clear garbage bags half-filled with both espresso coffee as well as drip coffee with filters.

Depending on how the economy is and how much competition I have, I collect anywhere from 10 to 15 30 lb to 40 lb bags of grounds each week. I've got approx. 40 bags stockpiled for future and ongoing projects.

Of course, if you have a steady supply of safe grass clippings, you could go without all the grounds.

Michael

Sherry_AK · February 8, 2009

Absolutely add the brewing leftovers to your pile. We used to get it from a local outfit ... they would call when they had a batch ready. We used their 30-gallon cans to bring it home in. We just rinsed them with the hose and returned them. I found it to have a pleasant, yeasty smell. Of course it was extremely fresh when we acquired it. In fact, I scooped out a bucketful and used in baking bread ... best bread I've ever made.

We did make one horrible mistake with it though. We got a load one winter when there was too much snow to haul it to the compost pile. So we thought how clever we were to just pile it up in the driveway till Spring. Well ... that pile was a real moose magnet. We had them grazing in the driveway the rest of the winter. Never again!

Sherry

veggie babe · February 9, 2009

i just started my worm farm this week. when i opened the worms (red wrigglers) they were small, i was expecting larger worms. did you have any problems starting your worm farm? i am a little concerned. i have read several sites on the internet,as usual they contradict each other.
any advice from experienced worm farmers would be appreciated.

neva

mresseguie · February 9, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by veggie babe

i just started my worm farm this week. when i opened the worms (red wrigglers) they were small, i was expecting larger worms. did you have any problems starting your worm farm? i am a little concerned. i have read several sites on the internet,as usual they contradict each other.
any advice from experienced worm farmers would be appreciated.

neva

Hi, Neva.

Tell us a little about your worm farm. What are its dimensions? Is it a plastic bin, wood bin, cinder blocks, etc? What are you using for bedding? How many pounds of worms did you start with? What are the high and low temperatures the worms will be exposed to? Have you already fed your worms, and are they eating it?

Armed with more information, we can give you better, more accurate, and (hopefully) less contradictory answers.

Michael

veggie babe · February 10, 2009

i thought it would be better to start small and hopefully learn by "doing." i made (rather my husband made) my bin out of an 18 gal. plastic tote muhck like dice has. i used card board and shredded newspaper,i have a small amount of soil and i have feed them coffee grounds and sweet potato peelings. it does not look like they have eaten anything since i got them friday 2-06. i have 500 worms or approximately 1 lb. of worms.
what i have read the optimal temp is 60-90, i live in east texas so it gets much colder and hotter than that. i thought i would watch and if they seem to get too cold or hot move them into my husbands shop,i can reg. the temp there.
how will i be able to tell if the worms become stressed??????
michael it sounds like you have a large operation,mine is a small hobby that i will hopefully benefit from with the worm tea and compost. i hate to mention this just in case someone is going to think badly of me buttttttttttt i also love to fish and as we say in texas i have a small stock pond with catfish and crappie in it. yes, i want to use some of the worms for bait. (i'm sure the grandchildren will use a few of them also)
thanks for your interest and help,

neva

mresseguie · February 10, 2009

Neva,

It's not uncommon for worms to take a week or so to adjust to their new environment. It's could be different temps, different bedding materials, shock from the move/shipping, or even orneriness. Your sweet potato peels will have to first start breaking down before the worms will feed. Bacteria are the prime facilitators that make food 'edible' to the worms. Be patient with the worms.

If you have any, mix in a couple handfuls of brown leaves just to add to the newspaper. If you have corn meal, flour, or oatmeal in your kitchen, toss in an ounce or so.

Did you soak the newspaper first?

60 to 90 degrees is okay. I've been told 50 to 80 is best for making babies, but yours is close enough.

Actually, I do not have a big operation. I re-started with approx. 2000 worms last year. I can't seem to count them now, but there seem to be more. ;-) My set up can supposedly house up to 12,000 without getting too crowded. We'll see how that unfolds. I occasionally help care for two big worm bins that look a lot like coffins. (8' long x 2' wide x 2' high) These have got kazillions of worms and produce prodigious amounts of castings each year.

Don't worry about using them as bait. I suspect it happens a lot. I'd sure use some if I had a stocked pond near me!

Michael

babylark · February 9, 2009

I know worms are really great for the garden. We have some whoppers that live in the soil around our horse manure pile. I'm really freaked out by worms! Especially the red ones...they really squirm! Gives me the creeps.

A worm phobia is the wrong one to have, when you have a garden!

stormymater · February 9, 2009

neva - there are different types of earthworms as you have discovered. My limited understanding is that the red wrigglers you have are exactly right for gobbling up home organic waste & making wonderful castings but not so much for actual worms we would use to bait a fish hook.

dice · February 9, 2009

[worm bin]
I used this method to build one out of an 18-gal tote:

http://whatcom.wsu.edu/ag/compost/Easywormbin.htm

It worked fine. As it filled up and the worms ate the bedding
along with the worm food, I kept adding more layers of
shredded paper or shredded leaves on top (I used both at
different times). I also scattered a couple of tablespoons
of lime on top every couple of months.

An in-depth analysis of the lifecycle and use of earthworms
from someone who apparently studied them for decades:

http://journeytoforever.org/farm_lib...oliverToC.html

February 8, 2009	#1
matereater Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: S.E. Michigan (Livonia) Posts: 1,264	Beer Brewing leftovers My son brews his own beers and I got to thinking about the leftovers from the process, i.e barley, hops, yeast? Would these be OK to add to my compost bin? Seems like it would but I thought I read somewhere that some grains were not a good idea because of specific types of molds that may grow on them during the composting cycle. __________________ Steve Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult

February 8, 2009	#2
mresseguie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Oregon Posts: 159	Hi, Steve. I'll tell you my experience with brewing leftovers followed by the warnings I was given. Let's see..a couple years ago I was given a couple hundred pounds of the stuff (wort?? mash??) from a local microbrewery. It was pretty sour smelling and had the consistency of cooked oatmeal. I went ahead and mixed it into a small composting windrow (20' L x 4' W) of organic matter I was 'cooking' up. I let that sit for about two months before I forked it all onto my beds. I'd been concerned about the acidity and/or anaerobic nature of the mash, but I used it nonetheless. Isn't ignorance a great aid? Well, when I forked over the composted material to my beds, I discovered a kazillion worms--some of which were the thickest worms I'd ever laid eyes upon. My neighbor let out a "Holy s###!" when she saw the worms. (I'd never heard her swear before, so it was quite a treat.) That year's vegetables were the lushest, healthiest, and best producing those beds had ever produced. How much of an impact that mash had on the quality of the compost I will never know for sure. There were also leaves, dairy manure, llama manure, garden waste, newspaper, and grass clippings in that windrow. Months later I asked an extension agent about the mash, and she said it's too anaerobic to be useful. That's why it smelled like baby vomit when I got it. (Sorry to be so graphic, but that's what it reminded me of.) Personally, I'd say go ahead and use it as long as it doesn't constitute more than 15% or 20% of your compost pile. Spread it through out the pile. Make sure there are adequate bulking materials to absorb the liquid (leaves, straw, wood chips). Then give it enough time to compost fully. Good luck! Michael __________________ Learning to speak tomato! Got compost? Last edited by mresseguie; February 8, 2009 at 02:43 PM. Reason: typo/missed info

February 9, 2009	#7
mresseguie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Oregon Posts: 159	Stormy, Isn't the Health Department wonderful? (Notice the invisible 'dripping with sarcasm' 3D graphics in the background.) Give this a try: Ask to speak with the manager of each Starbucks. Ask them if they can set the plastic bags of grounds beside the dumpsters to facilitate your picking them up. Mind you, you'll have to pick them up regularly so the bags don't pile up. Another idea that works well here is to supply the stores with clean 5-gallon buckets (with lids). The employees fill 'em up, cap 'em, and you pick 'em up every evening or every 2 or 3 days. You drop off clean buckets to replace the now full buckets. Take full buckets home, empty them, and rinse 'em out, let dry for next pick up/drop off. There is a huge operation in Eugene, Oregon, and a very small one here in Corvallis that both do this to very good effect. The Health Dept. is fine with it. I'm either too lazy or too busy (your choice) to use the buckets, so I pick up the plastic bags beside the dumpsters. These are not the silver bags the grounds are shipped in. They are 32 gallon (?) clear garbage bags half-filled with both espresso coffee as well as drip coffee with filters. Depending on how the economy is and how much competition I have, I collect anywhere from 10 to 15 30 lb to 40 lb bags of grounds each week. I've got approx. 40 bags stockpiled for future and ongoing projects. Of course, if you have a steady supply of safe grass clippings, you could go without all the grounds. Michael __________________ Learning to speak tomato! Got compost? Last edited by mresseguie; February 10, 2009 at 03:16 PM. Reason: typo

February 10, 2009	#12
mresseguie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Oregon Posts: 159	Neva, It's not uncommon for worms to take a week or so to adjust to their new environment. It's could be different temps, different bedding materials, shock from the move/shipping, or even orneriness. Your sweet potato peels will have to first start breaking down before the worms will feed. Bacteria are the prime facilitators that make food 'edible' to the worms. Be patient with the worms. If you have any, mix in a couple handfuls of brown leaves just to add to the newspaper. If you have corn meal, flour, or oatmeal in your kitchen, toss in an ounce or so. Did you soak the newspaper first? 60 to 90 degrees is okay. I've been told 50 to 80 is best for making babies, but yours is close enough. Actually, I do not have a big operation. I re-started with approx. 2000 worms last year. I can't seem to count them now, but there seem to be more. ;-) My set up can supposedly house up to 12,000 without getting too crowded. We'll see how that unfolds. I occasionally help care for two big worm bins that look a lot like coffins. (8' long x 2' wide x 2' high) These have got kazillions of worms and produce prodigious amounts of castings each year. Don't worry about using them as bait. I suspect it happens a lot. I'd sure use some if I had a stocked pond near me! Michael __________________ Learning to speak tomato! Got compost?

February 9, 2009	#13
babylark Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Lebanon, PA • Zone 6a Posts: 145	I know worms are really great for the garden. We have some whoppers that live in the soil around our horse manure pile. I'm really freaked out by worms! Especially the red ones...they really squirm! Gives me the creeps. A worm phobia is the wrong one to have, when you have a garden! __________________ I can not be held responsible for anything typed above, as I believe my Corgis have learned to type!

February 8, 2009	#3
stormymater Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Pleasure Island, NC 8a Posts: 1,162	So... ah Michael, tell me before I post a "wanted - leftover brewing mash/wort" on Freecycle - since this stuff sounds like a gi-normous baby gack (hairs on back of my neck raising & goose bumps forming) - how in the world did you get it to your composting beds? I had a horrible vision of this stuff in the bed of my old pickup - never to ever be fully gotten out but am so intrigued because of the worms (earthworms as in Annelids, right?). Found this interesting article about vermiculture & it mentions grains, etc. as good food for worms - http://www.bae.ncsu.edu/topic/vermic...earthworms.pdf

February 8, 2009	#5
kygreg Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: kentucky Posts: 1,019	I bet not only did you have kazillion worms, but they were happy worms, feeling no pain at all.

February 8, 2009	#8
Sherry_AK Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Alaska Zone 3/4 Posts: 1,857	Absolutely add the brewing leftovers to your pile. We used to get it from a local outfit ... they would call when they had a batch ready. We used their 30-gallon cans to bring it home in. We just rinsed them with the hose and returned them. I found it to have a pleasant, yeasty smell. Of course it was extremely fresh when we acquired it. In fact, I scooped out a bucketful and used in baking bread ... best bread I've ever made. We did make one horrible mistake with it though. We got a load one winter when there was too much snow to haul it to the compost pile. So we thought how clever we were to just pile it up in the driveway till Spring. Well ... that pile was a real moose magnet. We had them grazing in the driveway the rest of the winter. Never again! Sherry

February 9, 2009	#9
veggie babe Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: east texas Posts: 686	i just started my worm farm this week. when i opened the worms (red wrigglers) they were small, i was expecting larger worms. did you have any problems starting your worm farm? i am a little concerned. i have read several sites on the internet,as usual they contradict each other. any advice from experienced worm farmers would be appreciated. neva

February 9, 2009	#15
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	[worm bin] I used this method to build one out of an 18-gal tote: http://whatcom.wsu.edu/ag/compost/Easywormbin.htm It worked fine. As it filled up and the worms ate the bedding along with the worm food, I kept adding more layers of shredded paper or shredded leaves on top (I used both at different times). I also scattered a couple of tablespoons of lime on top every couple of months. An in-depth analysis of the lifecycle and use of earthworms from someone who apparently studied them for decades: http://journeytoforever.org/farm_lib...oliverToC.html __________________ -- alias Last edited by dice; February 13, 2009 at 03:48 PM. Reason: cut-n-paste error