Soil Test Results from NGO Organic Farm in Northern Thailand

maupin · June 17, 2009

I am working as a volunteer on a Model Organic Farm in Northern Thailand (NEED Burma) training Burmese farmers in the organic method. Here's the soil test results from a Chiang Mai University test run in August 2008 using the In house method based on AOAC and OMAF. The land has been ours less than 2 years.

pH 5.23
Electrical Conductivity 0.03 dS/m
Nitrogen 0.10% by weight
Phosphorus 0.04% by weight
Potassium 0.40% by weight
Magnesium 279.60 mg/kg
Organic Matter 1.12% by weight
C/N ratio 11:1
Cation Exchange Capacity 66.62 cmol/kg
We are planting rice now, as the rainy season is about to begin in less than 10 days. The rice harvest will be in late October . Rice will grow in almost any pH, so we are trying to get a grant for lime to raise the pH to 6.0. for post rice harvest application, as we will grow dry season vegetables in the former rice paddy from November to June,and the yield of dry season vegetables will be pretty poor unless we raise up the pH.
As you may guess, we have no money for organic inputs. We have an aquarium pump and access to free sugar and are making 30 gallons of aerated compost tea and dumping it on different parcels of the paddy every 4 days. No danger in the soil getting too wet when you're growing rice. Any observations on the soil test results that would be helpful? Any dry season veg planting recommendations for soil improvement (acid clay, like most rice paddy land) that take into account the year round hot climate and the necessity of a good rice harvest as the only thing between us and hunger?

dice · June 17, 2009

How far are you from urban civilization? Concrete rubble from
demolished buildings, sidewalks, and so on has a fairly high
lime content and is usually alkaline. It could be piled into
the mouth of the water source for the rice paddies, raising
the pH of the water input. It could also be mixed with soil
to build the low dikes that hold the water in rice paddies.

In the dry season, it could be piled in rows, with soil heaped
up over it, and then planted on top, like planting in hipped up
rows like they do in the South here to keep torrential spring
rains from drowning seedlings. (The channels in between
the rows give the water some place to run off into and drain
away.) That would raise the pH in the rows, not a lot, but
right around the pieces of concrete there would be higher pH
areas where nutrients that are locked up at pH levels below
6.0 would become available. When the field is flooded again
for the next rice crop, the concrete would continue to change
the pH of the water, distributing its effect more widely into
the soil around what were last year's rows.

Wood ash you probably already thought of. Burning down a
bunch of forest to get ash to raise the soil pH probably does
not fit with the concept of sustainable organic agriculture,
and the effect is probably not going to last very long anyway.

Do they eat nuts in any numbers? Burned nutshells could have
an effect on pH similar to wood ash.

A lot of nutrients are effected by low pH, but according to an
old Rodale handout, manganese and molybdenum in particular
become unavailable. I don't know where you get molybdenum
(what plants are high in it), and plants need very little, so
maybe you get by on that. Are there tea plantations anywhere
close? Tea is relatively high in manganese for a plant material.
Grasses tend to be, too. (Also rice, interestingly enough.) You
could incorporate those into your compost if you can get them
in quantity, so that your compost tea supplies a steady supply
of an element that tends to become unavailable in the soil at
the native pH level.

What about good old limestone rock (from rock outcrops,
cliffs along rivers, caves, etc)? That could function in a way
similar to the concrete rubble if you can find it in transportable
sized chunks.

ContainerTed · June 17, 2009

Sawadee, khap, na-Maupin.

In North Georgia redneck, that's "Howdy".

I loved the time I spent in Thailand. Seems like everything that grows will bloom at some time during the year. My knowledge of the country is from the areas of Korat City, Ubon, Tahkli, Chiang Mai, Chahm Siree(Ph.), and NKP. I also was in and out of Utapao AB in the Bangkok area.

While (deployed) in Thailand, I did some "spelunking" near a place called "Mook Lek (phonetic)". A few of us opened a cave there and a Bhudist Monk (who happened to be a graduate of Ohio State - like the King) was going to make a place of worship out of an upper part that had sunlight coming through a hole in the ceiling. It would cast a "beam" of light down and he was going to set up a Bhuda in that sunbeam.

Dice, they have plenty of limestone. The caves I was in were the same kind of limestone caves I found in Northeastern Tennessee. So, limestone is available.

Finding things for cheap can be tough. One of my lasting impressions is that, in Thailand, if something finds its way to the trash heap, it can't be burned and even the dog (always brown) doesn't want to play with it. The Thai people waste nothing. Things are totally consumed.

So, any material from deconstruction may be pricey or hard to find. But, with all the stuff that grows, and the latitude (single to just barely double digits north) compost can be made.

One of the larger plant products I remember is tapioca. They make tons of noodles out of it. There have to be waste products from this.

Summertime temps were high 80's and 90's with lots of humidity. Winter was more like spring here in Georgia. The mid 40's at night in winter was considered frigid.

One very distinct memory is of standing in beautiful sunlight on dry pavement and watching a wall of heavy monsoon rain no more than 75 feet away. It was putting down raindrops larger than any I had ever seen. We stood there for more than 5 minutes before the wall of rain began to ease its way toward us. It was like a knife had cut the two weather conditions apart.

Ted

dice · June 17, 2009

You would have to work out whether rows hipped up over
limestone would be an inconvenience for rice planting, tending,
harvesting etc. I have not watched the whole process from
start to finish, so I don't know how important it is to the workers
that the ground in the bottom of the paddies be flat. Easy
enough to flatten it back out before flooding the paddies
if that is what you need in the fields during rice season.

maupin · June 30, 2009

Yo tomatoheads!

Thanks so much for the thoughtful and helpful responses,

Can't dig up the beds now, but water flows through th e paddy in a downhill pattern, so sinking limestone rocks/cinderblocks at the high end insures that it will flow through the low end.

Y'all are invited to visit at the Model farm Initiative in Ban Bo Hin.

Khap Khun Khrap!

ContainerTed · June 30, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by maupin

Khap Khun Khrap!

My bpen lie, Kahp.

You're welcome

Ted

aninocentangel · June 30, 2009

Bone meal will raise the ph of the soil. If you can find a source of clean bones they can be dried, pulverized and added to the beds. It adds phosphorous and calcium. If you need to clean the bones you can boil them, they can also be burned in a very hot fire, break up the big pieces and then use the ashes as fertilizer.
Enjay

clara · July 1, 2009

Maupin, greetings from Germany! Sorry, I can't help with your problem, but let me say that I love Thailand! I've been there more than 20 times, in all regions except the North-East (every time, we planned to go there, there were heavy floods) and I really regret that I had to cancel my Thailand holiday on Easter. But I shall and will come back!!
clara

June 17, 2009	#1
maupin Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Northern Thailand Posts: 77	Soil Test Results from NGO Organic Farm in Northern Thailand I am working as a volunteer on a Model Organic Farm in Northern Thailand (NEED Burma) training Burmese farmers in the organic method. Here's the soil test results from a Chiang Mai University test run in August 2008 using the In house method based on AOAC and OMAF. The land has been ours less than 2 years. pH 5.23 Electrical Conductivity 0.03 dS/m Nitrogen 0.10% by weight Phosphorus 0.04% by weight Potassium 0.40% by weight Magnesium 279.60 mg/kg Organic Matter 1.12% by weight C/N ratio 11:1 Cation Exchange Capacity 66.62 cmol/kg We are planting rice now, as the rainy season is about to begin in less than 10 days. The rice harvest will be in late October . Rice will grow in almost any pH, so we are trying to get a grant for lime to raise the pH to 6.0. for post rice harvest application, as we will grow dry season vegetables in the former rice paddy from November to June,and the yield of dry season vegetables will be pretty poor unless we raise up the pH. As you may guess, we have no money for organic inputs. We have an aquarium pump and access to free sugar and are making 30 gallons of aerated compost tea and dumping it on different parcels of the paddy every 4 days. No danger in the soil getting too wet when you're growing rice. Any observations on the soil test results that would be helpful? Any dry season veg planting recommendations for soil improvement (acid clay, like most rice paddy land) that take into account the year round hot climate and the necessity of a good rice harvest as the only thing between us and hunger?

June 17, 2009	#2
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	How far are you from urban civilization? Concrete rubble from demolished buildings, sidewalks, and so on has a fairly high lime content and is usually alkaline. It could be piled into the mouth of the water source for the rice paddies, raising the pH of the water input. It could also be mixed with soil to build the low dikes that hold the water in rice paddies. In the dry season, it could be piled in rows, with soil heaped up over it, and then planted on top, like planting in hipped up rows like they do in the South here to keep torrential spring rains from drowning seedlings. (The channels in between the rows give the water some place to run off into and drain away.) That would raise the pH in the rows, not a lot, but right around the pieces of concrete there would be higher pH areas where nutrients that are locked up at pH levels below 6.0 would become available. When the field is flooded again for the next rice crop, the concrete would continue to change the pH of the water, distributing its effect more widely into the soil around what were last year's rows. Wood ash you probably already thought of. Burning down a bunch of forest to get ash to raise the soil pH probably does not fit with the concept of sustainable organic agriculture, and the effect is probably not going to last very long anyway. Do they eat nuts in any numbers? Burned nutshells could have an effect on pH similar to wood ash. A lot of nutrients are effected by low pH, but according to an old Rodale handout, manganese and molybdenum in particular become unavailable. I don't know where you get molybdenum (what plants are high in it), and plants need very little, so maybe you get by on that. Are there tea plantations anywhere close? Tea is relatively high in manganese for a plant material. Grasses tend to be, too. (Also rice, interestingly enough.) You could incorporate those into your compost if you can get them in quantity, so that your compost tea supplies a steady supply of an element that tends to become unavailable in the soil at the native pH level. What about good old limestone rock (from rock outcrops, cliffs along rivers, caves, etc)? That could function in a way similar to the concrete rubble if you can find it in transportable sized chunks. __________________ -- alias

June 17, 2009	#3
ContainerTed Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: 6a - NE Tennessee Posts: 4,538	Sawadee, khap, na-Maupin. In North Georgia redneck, that's "Howdy". I loved the time I spent in Thailand. Seems like everything that grows will bloom at some time during the year. My knowledge of the country is from the areas of Korat City, Ubon, Tahkli, Chiang Mai, Chahm Siree(Ph.), and NKP. I also was in and out of Utapao AB in the Bangkok area. While (deployed) in Thailand, I did some "spelunking" near a place called "Mook Lek (phonetic)". A few of us opened a cave there and a Bhudist Monk (who happened to be a graduate of Ohio State - like the King) was going to make a place of worship out of an upper part that had sunlight coming through a hole in the ceiling. It would cast a "beam" of light down and he was going to set up a Bhuda in that sunbeam. Dice, they have plenty of limestone. The caves I was in were the same kind of limestone caves I found in Northeastern Tennessee. So, limestone is available. Finding things for cheap can be tough. One of my lasting impressions is that, in Thailand, if something finds its way to the trash heap, it can't be burned and even the dog (always brown) doesn't want to play with it. The Thai people waste nothing. Things are totally consumed. So, any material from deconstruction may be pricey or hard to find. But, with all the stuff that grows, and the latitude (single to just barely double digits north) compost can be made. One of the larger plant products I remember is tapioca. They make tons of noodles out of it. There have to be waste products from this. Summertime temps were high 80's and 90's with lots of humidity. Winter was more like spring here in Georgia. The mid 40's at night in winter was considered frigid. One very distinct memory is of standing in beautiful sunlight on dry pavement and watching a wall of heavy monsoon rain no more than 75 feet away. It was putting down raindrops larger than any I had ever seen. We stood there for more than 5 minutes before the wall of rain began to ease its way toward us. It was like a knife had cut the two weather conditions apart. Ted __________________ Ted ________________________ Owner & Sole Operator Of The Muddy Bucket Farm and Tomato Ranch

June 17, 2009	#4
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	You would have to work out whether rows hipped up over limestone would be an inconvenience for rice planting, tending, harvesting etc. I have not watched the whole process from start to finish, so I don't know how important it is to the workers that the ground in the bottom of the paddies be flat. Easy enough to flatten it back out before flooding the paddies if that is what you need in the fields during rice season. __________________ -- alias

June 30, 2009	#5
maupin Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Northern Thailand Posts: 77	Thanks so much! Yo tomatoheads! Thanks so much for the thoughtful and helpful responses, Can't dig up the beds now, but water flows through th e paddy in a downhill pattern, so sinking limestone rocks/cinderblocks at the high end insures that it will flow through the low end. Y'all are invited to visit at the Model farm Initiative in Ban Bo Hin. Khap Khun Khrap!

June 30, 2009	#7
aninocentangel Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: 8a Coastal SC Posts: 251	Bone meal will raise the ph of the soil. If you can find a source of clean bones they can be dried, pulverized and added to the beds. It adds phosphorous and calcium. If you need to clean the bones you can boil them, they can also be burned in a very hot fire, break up the big pieces and then use the ashes as fertilizer. Enjay

July 1, 2009	#8
clara Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 1,351	Maupin, greetings from Germany! Sorry, I can't help with your problem, but let me say that I love Thailand! I've been there more than 20 times, in all regions except the North-East (every time, we planned to go there, there were heavy floods) and I really regret that I had to cancel my Thailand holiday on Easter. But I shall and will come back!! clara