Viney Mater plants

Turbomicah · December 29, 2009

Take a look at the pic. These are all "Delicious" maters started out the same way, and planted the same day. All have the same soil, water, etc. What did I do wrong for the mater plants in the rear of this pic to grow so viney? The one closest to the camera has three more next to it that all came out PERFECT & produced many many fine maters.
I just can't figure out what went wrong with the other mater plants & why they were so viney with little production.
Please chime in and tell me what I did wrong.
Thanks!

duajones · December 29, 2009

Could it be that those plants recieved less sun?

mtbigfish · December 29, 2009

duajones
looks like they are all out in the middle of the yard -same sun?
is the water supply partually flowing down line? are they from your saved seed - verified same variety? were they same size ie height, stock thickness - leaf color etc at plantout? did the roots all appear same -
what else has grown in those areas before ?
Dennis

habitat_gardener · December 29, 2009

Could the nonproductive ones have gotten extra nitrogen? Maybe from extra fertilizer, or a septic tank, or animals? Have you grown tomatoes in those spots before? Was the plastic or weedblock used for something else before?

I had a couple unproductive ones this year that I planted very late (didn't think I had space for them), and I think they got stunted in the containers and never recovered. Is it possible the roots of your unproductive ones got girdled?

mtbigfish · December 30, 2009

habitat
yeah and when we plant late here we get nice plants that do a lot of blossum dropping in the Aug heat

Turbomicah · December 30, 2009

The water supply was going down towards the weaker plants. (slight slope but enough to over nitrate them) When I poured my compost tea on all of these plants, It ran down to that end. Makes sense now.
Nothing was planted there before. only grass grew there.
Weedblock was new. The weedblock did not work either. The grass still grew up under the weedblock. I didn't want to put down bisquine (black plastic) because I wanted the ground to breathe.
Thanks for the responses!

barkeater · January 4, 2010

Looks like the weeds got to the fertilizer first at that end. They look weak and spindly compared to the healthy green one in front.

Be careful buying weedblock. There are 2 different kinds. I still have half a roll of the wrong one I bought 5 years ago. Sometimes it is hard to tell, but if the instructions say to put down 2" of mulch, and it will last many years, its the wrong kind. It's also much cheaper than the good weed block for vegetable gardens, which is how I got snagged.

Turbomicah · January 5, 2010

Thanks for the tip Barkeater.
Cheers~

Worth1 · January 5, 2010

I can tell you right now from my experience it is NOT too much nitrogen too much nitrogen will turn tomato plant almost blue green with burned leaf tips.
Even then after too much N I have had tomatoes put out a ton of fruit.
From what it looks like to me is not enough of something and or the soil has it but is at a point to where the plant can’t take it up.
Meaning you have a clay type soil and I just about bet it is red oxidized clay.
Clay type soils are basically microscopic platelets from eroded stone that make it hard for some plants to grow regardless of how much fertilizer you put in it.
Here is how our environment works.
First you have sorry soil which only pine trees and such grow. as time rolls along and the soil inproves from decomposing trees the hardwoods take over. this takes many years 100’s to 1000’s to be exact.
We can’t wait around that long so here is what I do to speed things up a bit.
I put down compost and sandy loam on top of the soil till this in and put down more.
Don’t till the last layer.
What you want is about 6 inches of good soil on top for the plants to feed from.
Now if you wait a year and cut down through the soil you will see a line in the soil where the clay turns to your own dark top soil.
This transition line is called a horizon.
Contrary to popular belief you don’t need a lot of top soil and you don’t have to have a long tap root.
What you need is a thin layer of good soil on top spread out widely for the plant to feed from.
I have a red clay loam soil here and have done this.
Put down 6 inches of good soil and had great success.
Dug a deep hole and put in good soil and had marginal to no success.
From the picture it looks as though the grass is gobbling up all of the nutrients from the plants.
A better solution would be to put in raised beds and have a much healthier tomato plant.
Or make a row about 5 feet wide keep all the grass killed in the middle and till around the edge of the row to keep roots from growing.
A good healthy tomato plant should have vines that are easily snapped if bent and the clear sap will liberally run from the broken area.

Worth

.

December 29, 2009	#2
duajones Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Corpus Christi,Texas Z9 Posts: 1,996	Could it be that those plants recieved less sun? __________________ Duane Jones

December 29, 2009	#3
mtbigfish Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Chillicothe Ohio - left Calif July 2010 Posts: 451	duajones looks like they are all out in the middle of the yard -same sun? is the water supply partually flowing down line? are they from your saved seed - verified same variety? were they same size ie height, stock thickness - leaf color etc at plantout? did the roots all appear same - what else has grown in those areas before ? Dennis

December 29, 2009	#4
habitat_gardener Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: California Central Valley Posts: 2,543	Could the nonproductive ones have gotten extra nitrogen? Maybe from extra fertilizer, or a septic tank, or animals? Have you grown tomatoes in those spots before? Was the plastic or weedblock used for something else before? I had a couple unproductive ones this year that I planted very late (didn't think I had space for them), and I think they got stunted in the containers and never recovered. Is it possible the roots of your unproductive ones got girdled?

December 30, 2009	#5
mtbigfish Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Chillicothe Ohio - left Calif July 2010 Posts: 451	habitat yeah and when we plant late here we get nice plants that do a lot of blossum dropping in the Aug heat

December 30, 2009	#6
Turbomicah Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Mississippi 7b Posts: 16	The water supply was going down towards the weaker plants. (slight slope but enough to over nitrate them) When I poured my compost tea on all of these plants, It ran down to that end. Makes sense now. Nothing was planted there before. only grass grew there. Weedblock was new. The weedblock did not work either. The grass still grew up under the weedblock. I didn't want to put down bisquine (black plastic) because I wanted the ground to breathe. Thanks for the responses!

January 4, 2010	#7
barkeater Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NE Kingdom, VT - Zone 3b Posts: 1,439	Looks like the weeds got to the fertilizer first at that end. They look weak and spindly compared to the healthy green one in front. Be careful buying weedblock. There are 2 different kinds. I still have half a roll of the wrong one I bought 5 years ago. Sometimes it is hard to tell, but if the instructions say to put down 2" of mulch, and it will last many years, its the wrong kind. It's also much cheaper than the good weed block for vegetable gardens, which is how I got snagged.

January 5, 2010	#8
Turbomicah Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Mississippi 7b Posts: 16	Thanks for the tip Barkeater. Cheers~

January 5, 2010	#9
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	I can tell you right now from my experience it is NOT too much nitrogen too much nitrogen will turn tomato plant almost blue green with burned leaf tips. Even then after too much N I have had tomatoes put out a ton of fruit. From what it looks like to me is not enough of something and or the soil has it but is at a point to where the plant can’t take it up. Meaning you have a clay type soil and I just about bet it is red oxidized clay. Clay type soils are basically microscopic platelets from eroded stone that make it hard for some plants to grow regardless of how much fertilizer you put in it. Here is how our environment works. First you have sorry soil which only pine trees and such grow. as time rolls along and the soil inproves from decomposing trees the hardwoods take over. this takes many years 100’s to 1000’s to be exact. We can’t wait around that long so here is what I do to speed things up a bit. I put down compost and sandy loam on top of the soil till this in and put down more. Don’t till the last layer. What you want is about 6 inches of good soil on top for the plants to feed from. Now if you wait a year and cut down through the soil you will see a line in the soil where the clay turns to your own dark top soil. This transition line is called a horizon. Contrary to popular belief you don’t need a lot of top soil and you don’t have to have a long tap root. What you need is a thin layer of good soil on top spread out widely for the plant to feed from. I have a red clay loam soil here and have done this. Put down 6 inches of good soil and had great success. Dug a deep hole and put in good soil and had marginal to no success. From the picture it looks as though the grass is gobbling up all of the nutrients from the plants. A better solution would be to put in raised beds and have a much healthier tomato plant. Or make a row about 5 feet wide keep all the grass killed in the middle and till around the edge of the row to keep roots from growing. A good healthy tomato plant should have vines that are easily snapped if bent and the clear sap will liberally run from the broken area. Worth .