Seed size?

[daylilydude]

I had received some seeds from a friend from a commercial pack but he also sent me some of the same variety that he grew in his garden and they are different sizes?? Is this gonna make any difference when i grow them?

[Worth1]

If they are mature I bet it will, I have noticed that the smaller tomatoes have smaller seeds.
Such as cheery tomatoes VS Kellogg’s Breakfast, where the latter is much larger.
But don’t listen to me the more experienced professionals will chime in and surely prove me wrong.
Worth

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by daylilydude

I had received some seeds from a friend from a commercial pack but he also sent me some of the same variety that he grew in his garden and they are different sizes?? Is this gonna make any difference when i grow them?

Richard, were the seeds from the commercial pack slightly smaller and darker in color and less fuzzy than the ones your friend shared with you?

If so it may it may indicate that the commercial seeds were treated with TSP.

[daylilydude]

The commercial were the bigger ones.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by daylilydude

The commercial were the bigger ones.

Then scratch that suggestion.

Since you're talking about one variety and two seed sizes from tow sources, as long as the both are mature seeds then there should be no problem.

A few years ago there was a great thread at GW in the Heirloom Forum on the size of tomato seeds and germination, and most folks who posted in that thread said that for the same variety with saved seeds there was no real difference.

If you have enough seeds why not just do a small germination test with some wet towels and see for yourself.

I will admit that when pawing through seeds when I'm packing them for others, I tend to select the bigger and fatter ones, but when I get near the end of selecting seeds for myself and I'm left with lots of smaller ones they seem to do OK but just may not germinate as quickly as the larger fatter ones.

I suppose it has to do with possibly different amounts of endosperm in the two seed sizes.

[dice]

I had some smallish seeds from a commercial pack of Box
Car Willie one time. When I grew them out, the seeds that
I saved from fruit of those plants were twice that size.

I got Box Car Willie seeds again from a different source
a year or two later, from bagged fruit on plants grown
from Carolyn's own Box Car Willie seed, and the plants
and fruit matched the plants and fruit grown from the
commercial packet with the small seeds.

So, the small seeds from the first packet were authentic
Box Car Willie seeds, even though Box Car Willie is not
a cultivar that always has small seeds for genetic reasons.
When I grew them myself, I got seeds twice that size, that
still produced authentic Box Car Willie plants identical to
the ones from the small seeds.

Many cherry tomato and paste types, though, and saladettes
with some paste heritage, always produce smaller than average
seeds no matter how mature the fruit are when picked, or what
the growing conditions were like (nutrition, etc).

Smaller than average seeds can thus be produced either
genetically or environmentally. On a variety where saved
seeds are mostly "full size", one does not know if a packet
of smaller than average seeds indicates some recent crossing
or a variety mixup until one grows out the plants and checks
the fruit. It could have been simply the season, the soil
nutrition, when the fruit were harvested, etc, that determined
the size of the saved seeds.

[ContainerTed]

When I made my seed saving procedure, this is one of the subjects I addressed. My conclusion at that time and still at this time is that each variety has a seed size that is "normal" for that variety. As large as the fruit and plant are for "Giant Tree", the normal seeds are smaller than the seeds for Black & Red Boar (which is 22 ounces vs 4 ounces).

This past year I also noticed that a variety can have different size seeds between two tomatoes from the same truss (and both seed sizes be viable). So, I have always emphasized "what is normal (or average)" for a variety.

When I process seeds, I always do them in small batches. I always spread them out on the paper plates to dry by making sure that no two seeds are touching. Doing this allows me to purge the seeds that made it thru the process that are too small, have blackened spots on them, etc. Smallish seeds will struggle to make a plant and require much more TLC. I believe smallish seeds are the primary cause of folks saying that they got seedlings, and then a certain group "JUST DIED" while the others were fine. And, yes, I do know that "damping off" kills more seedlings than anything else.

My process would not be possible for large scale seed production such as what is needed for commercial sales. But it gives me the very best seeds my plants can deliver.

So, my bottom line is that seeds for a variety has a "normal or average" size. And that is always my goal in saving seeds.

Nothing scientific here, just an old troubleshooter's observations of what he has experienced.

Ted