Odd question re tomato growth??

[Jeannine Anne]

Hi, this is one I have never personally come across so am hoping someone can tell me the answer.

I started to grow Tommy Toe toms a few years ago, I had a fairly large amount of seed and always used the same ones for about 3 years,grew and tasted just as I expected them to. Last year, still using the original seed I had an odd looking branch of fruit that grew differntly to all the other fruit on the vine and they ended up much smaller.


I kept seeds from fruit from that one branch just for curiosity.Marked the packet Tommy Toe??

This year I sowed what I though was my original Tommy Toe, actually I had forgotten about the others,but these are different.

While everything else was growing on these little plants grew to about 5 inches and stopped, they have dark green very healthy foliage, strong tough stems, I didn't pot them on after the 4 inch pot stage. Just watered and left them .

After planting everything else out these little plnts were still sitting there..

Realising I had made a mistake and planted soemthing very different I went trough my seeds in my T seeds to see what I had written on the packets for germinating in 2010, on the Tommy Toe packet the last year I grew them was 2009, but on the Tommy Toe?? package I had written 2010.I had planted these odd seeds by mistake.

7 germinated and all are super healthy yet very small plants.

Yesterday I was going to chuck them, but changed my mind..not sure what to do but curious.

Sorry to be long winded

Has anyone ever experienced anything like this please? Just 1 branch was different, not the whole plant.

XX Jeannine

[nctomatoman]

If you had one branch on a plant with different fruit, it is likely a somatic mutation, which though not common, does occur on occasion....in that case, seed saved from fruit on that distinct branch should end up being different. Very interesting! Keep us informed of what happens!

[stormymater]

If you have the room, don't chuck 'em - you may be onto something new & very special!

[Jeannine Anne]

No I won;t, they are now all tucked up in 4 inch pots not as before, boy they are tough stemmed little things.

I am getting quite fond of them now,,calling them babies!! Babytoes maybe!!

I will try and put some pictures on

XX Jeannine

[Jeannine Anne]

Just an update. The mystery Tommy Toes are now about 8 or 9 inches high, still in their 4 inch pots,and are starting to flower. I have them inside under lights as I didn't want to put them near any others, I have a fan blowing nearby so there is movement in the foliage. I have never come up against anything like this before,should I be doing anything else with them?

I know very little about the science of of tomato growing and am finding it very difficult to understand why 1 branch of a plant could produce seeds that have produced such a different looking plant than it's parent. I might have been able to understand a tomato with a bit different colour or shape but this is a different size plant altogether. I have racked my head for other reasons but I am dead certain that I haven't made a mistake, however is it likely that an indetermiate plant would have produced such a small offspring.

XX Jeannine

[carolyn137]

Theoretically a somatic mutation can alter any trait of a variety b'c it's a single mutation in the DNA of a plant cell, just as a mutation in the DNA of a seed can mutate.

Usually such somatic mutation change just color or shape, but from rereading your first post I'm getting the impression that that wasn't the case, rather, as you said

(I had an odd looking branch of fruit that grew differntly to all the other fruit on the vine and they ended up much smaller.)

Did you mean to say that that one branch grew differently than all the other BRANCHES on the plant, rather than saying fruit?.

I'm trying to get a hold of this genetically.

[shlacm]

Hope you can post pics! Sounds fascinating!!!

[Jeannine Anne]

Hi, the branch caught my eye at first I wondered what plant it was then I realised it was just the branch, normally I would prune off the suckers but we had been away leaving someone to water for us so it was quite long when we got back. The foliage seemed to be darker than the others and the leaves looked thicker, it seemed odd so I left it alone to see what happened, The fruit were small and red not unlike Tommy Toe but they were a bit smaller still,however I didn't detect much difference in the taste although the regular Tommy Toe fruit was sweeter than the odd ones, the branch didn't grow as long as the others which I left on that plant. I seem to remember that the the fruit on that branch matured faster as the branch died off quicker than the others.

I know nothing about tomato genetics etc so am really puzzled about this one, should I keep seeds and plant again for a few years.

What am I likely to get, the only other thing on that greenhouse that year was patio but this is growing smaller than that,even, and they were on the far end of an 18 foot greenhouse,

I am very picky about keeping records and marking plants well so I am sure I didn't mix anything up,

Can you help me Carolyn please?

I swill get some pictures tomorrow, XX Jeannine

[carolyn137]

If it's just the branch itself, which is what I suspected, and the fruits are just about the same as Tommy Toe then it does suggest that the altered branch is the result of a somatic mutation that occurred in a plant cell where that branch started from and so yes, seeds saved from the fruits on that branch should also carry that same mutation, so try some of those saved seeds and my best guess is that you should see plants with the same stem and foliage changes that you saw on the original branch and be sure to use saved seeds from fruits from the same plant NOT on that branch so you have a direct comparison.

How's that for a one sentence answer?

[Jeannine Anne]

Thank you Carolyn, great answer.

I only planted the seeds from the odd branch this year.

If I keep the seeds from the odd branch ones that are planted now, will they come true to themselves or am I likely to get a mixture next year.

It is kinda fascinating, at first I was going to chuck'em now I am nuturing them!!

Should I give them a name or a code or something to denote they are from this year.

XX Jeannine

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Jeannine Anne

Thank you Carolyn, great answer.

I only planted the seeds from the odd branch this year.

If I keep the seeds from the odd branch ones that are planted now, will they come true to themselves or am I likely to get a mixture next year.

It is kinda fascinating, at first I was going to chuck'em now I am nuturing them!!

Should I give them a name or a code or something to denote they are from this year.

XX Jeannine

Most somatic mutations are single spontaneous mutations that are permanent and heritable, And if so in your case then the plants you have this year from the saved seeds of fruits from the odd branch should give you a plant with that type of foliage, etc. And that will tell you if it's a single mutation right away.

Use any kind of labelling method you want to as long as you can Id the specific seeds you saved and when and all other relevant information.

If the plants are different how about we take that up when you see what you have from this summer?

[Jeannine Anne]

Carolyn, I have noticed that the flowers on these plants don't sem to be fully opening, it is like they are glued shut at the tips, I have heard of this before but don't know what it means and if there is anything I should do to put it right,

XX Jeannine

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Jeannine Anne

Carolyn, I have noticed that the flowers on these plants don't sem to be fully opening, it is like they are glued shut at the tips, I have heard of this before but don't know what it means and if there is anything I should do to put it right,

XX Jeannine

I don't think I've encountered blossoms that are stuck at the top. Some will remain closed for a few days, and actually most self pollenization occurs before the blossoms are even fully open.

Since you got fruits from the odd branch in the first place I see no reason why you shouldn't get them now with seeds from those fruits.

When you first saw the odd branch did you notice if the blossoms on that branch stayed shut for a while before opening fully?

[Jeannine Anne]

No, I didn't notice it on the original branch, maybe I am just fussing too much now as I am interested in them!!Thank you again XX Jeannine