Weed Control

[alamo5000]

I am an avid container gardener, but this year I am thinking of doing another in the ground garden as well.

My first year of gardening (before I started container gardening) I ended up with a total and complete mess. It was absolutely horrible. The weeds were 3 feet high and thick like a wheat field by the end of summer.

I swore it off after that...

Despite that I did try again and by the end of summer I was slightly better off than my first try. Part of the reason for that is I spaced the plants such that I could run the weed eater in between the rows.

What I want to try this year is some form of weed block or a cloth of some type.

I am wondering what ideas some of you may have about this...

I have seen the weed cloth at Home Depot, but I have seen other things that may work better (and last longer)...

I saw a cotton painters drop cloth, I have also seen a roll of burlap cloth.

I am wondering what you guys think of this type of material, and if you can offer any other types of suggestions....

Any feedback regarding performance of these or other materials would be appreciated....

[Worth1]

If you can get it a good 6 to 8 inch layer of straw does great.
I have put as much as a foot of straw on the ground and it blocked the weeds.
By the end of the season it will be a flat dense layer and can be tilled under.
It will also do a really good job of preventing dirt from splashing onto the plants.
It also holds moisture very well.

Worth

[alamo5000]

Originally Posted by Worth1

If you can get it a good 6 to 8 inch layer of straw does great.
I have put as much as a foot of straw on the ground and it blocked the weeds.
By the end of the season it will be a flat dense layer and can be tilled under.
It will also do a really good job of preventing dirt from splashing onto the plants.
It also holds moisture very well.

Worth

Tried it. Failed miserably.

I live right smack dab in the middle of one of the largest pine forests in the USA. I manually raked up at least 10 full size truck beds full of packed pine straw. It took me more than 2 weeks to do it all.

By the end of the season I had waist deep weeds and had to weed eat in between.

All that pine straw was useless. Maybe I will buy a whole round bale of hay and see if that helps...but I think some form of cloth will be better. Especially for the price ($65) I would rather have something I have much more confidence in.

[Tom C zone 4/5]

Try a light block underneath your mulch. News paper will do, cardboard is better.

I says swatting at the organic pharisees who're howling at my ankles...

[Worth1]

The pine needles didn't work for me ether, I live3 in the lost pines here in central Texas and got a truck load from some folks down the road.
the year before that I used some hay with out many seeds and it worked good for me.

But I dont know what kind of weeds you have so what works for me may not work well for you.

I can suggest to you to use the hay or straw but you have to put it on thick.

I have thought about cheap 1/4 plywood but it isn't cheap anymore.
I only till once and I put the soaker hoses under the mulch.
Crab grass is my enemy here.
2 layers of burlap might do the trick and it is biodegradable.

Worth

[ddsack]

I don't know how practical this would be in a regular garden, but in my back garden behind the old horse barn, I recycled strips of old carpet that I salvaged from friends who were recarpeting their house. I grow in raised beds, so once the carpet was down, it stayed down between the beds. It's been about 5 years now, and it's starting to decompose, but still does a good job of weed blocking. It originally looked kind of funky, I had elegant white level loop mixed with blocks of red and green shag, but now it all kind of looks like dirt. Probably wouldn't work as well if you till and change your garden layout every year as it does for permanent raised beds.
An old picture not too long after first putting it down - and no, the red carpet did not make the tomatoes in that area grow faster.


It looks very dull and greyed now.

[b54red]

I used a garden weed fabric and it worked great except it doesn't allow enough water through and you end up having to poke holes in it everywhere to get good penetration when watering. I have found for just sheer ability to block weeds and maintain moisture nothing beats a good thick layer of grass clippings. You will get the occasional weed and you have to reapply sometimes because it does breakdown rather quickly. Hay can be a real problem because of the seeds in the hay sprouting. A friend of mine gets his hay and leaves it out a couple of months ahead of time so the seed in it can sprout before he puts it down in his garden and that helps a great deal.

[tam91]

I use the very cheap weed cloth. It does let water through fine. Some weeds grow under it, as it lets some light through, but not very many, and nothing I have to do anything about.

I just throw it away in the spring (I'd have to remove it anyway, to add more manure and till.)

[alamo5000]

OK I think I have this figured out.

Here's the plan.

I will use the small tiller on the back of a small tractor and till a single swipe with it (maybe 4 foot across?) and 25 foot about long or maybe even up to 50 foot.

I will bury a 25 or 50 foot long or so soaker hose on that row....

Then I will cover it with a 3 foot wide weed cloth securely anchored to the ground...

Move over a couple feet (wide enough for the mower to go through) and repeat...

The ends of the soaker hoses I will make a connector for them to have one hook up and then viola...instant irrigation system...

I think this should make hassle free gardening... I hope. If not its definitely back to the buckets. I will probably do buckets anyway just for good measure.

Any feedback on the idea?

How many plants could you effectively put on a 50 foot long row????

[kath]

Originally Posted by alamo5000

OK I think I have this figured out.

Here's the plan.

I will use the small tiller on the back of a small tractor and till a single swipe with it (maybe 4 foot across?) and 25 foot about long or maybe even up to 50 foot.

I will bury a 25 or 50 foot long or so soaker hose on that row....

Then I will cover it with a 3 foot wide weed cloth securely anchored to the ground...

Move over a couple feet (wide enough for the mower to go through) and repeat...

The ends of the soaker hoses I will make a connector for them to have one hook up and then viola...instant irrigation system...

I think this should make hassle free gardening... I hope. If not its definitely back to the buckets. I will probably do buckets anyway just for good measure.

Any feedback on the idea?

How many plants could you effectively put on a 50 foot long row????

1) Alamo, are you talking about just tilling up strips of sod?

2) Are you asking how many tomato plants will fit in a 50' row?

[alamo5000]

Originally Posted by kath

1) Alamo, are you talking about just tilling up strips of sod?

2) Are you asking how many tomato plants will fit in a 50' row?

I am talking about putting a tiller on the back of a small tractor (like the one under my barn) and tilling up the ground, as in the earth.

Yes, I was wondering how many plants you can put in a 50 foot long row.

[kath]

Originally Posted by alamo5000

I am talking about putting a tiller on the back of a small tractor (like the one under my barn) and tilling up the ground, as in the earth.

Yes, I was wondering how many plants you can put in a 50 foot long row.

Wasn't trying to be obtuse, just was trying to clarify your questions in order to know how to respond. So...

1) Tilling up sod and planting right away is not something I've ever seen recommended, at least for a home garden; mostly because of the weed problem you are trying to avoid and because of grubs, etc.

2) Assuming we are talking tomato plants, then, it depends on whether you choose to cage or let sprawl or how many vines you might be choosing to keep on each plant and the way you choose to support them if you choose to prune; condition of your soil, etc. Lots of threads on this if you do a search. People's opinions vary on this as well, and you could well get answers ranging from 10-24 plants in a row that's 4' X 50".

Hope this helps-maybe someone else will chime in with comments about your plan.

[habitat_gardener]

FWIW, when I got my community garden plot the bindweed and bermuda grass were growing thickly in the paths. I pulled what I could, then covered it all with a few layers of cardboard or newspaper, then at least 6 inches of mulch. The neighboring plots still grow lots of bindweed and bermuda, but it's been out of the paths since then and hasn't infested my plot.

I do keep an eye out for small weeds and pull them (very easy through several inches of mulch). I also replenish the mulch (and sometimes t he cardboard/newspaper) every year or so.

In my experience, if weeds are a problem, it's a waste of time to put down mulch without a light-blocking layer of newspaper or cardboard.

Some of the paths had preexisting weed cloth, which made it impossible to eradicate the bermuda grass -- it was growing through it and actually thrived in it because it held a layer of moisture.

Another key to success is that I don't till my garden. Tilling brings up a new crop of weed seeds!

[matertoo]

This past year, I laid soaker hoses under landscape fabric and covered with grass clippings/leaves. Put "X's" at desired spacing and planted mater seedlings. Worked for me. At end of season, take up fabric and till in clippings/leaves.

Happy Matering,

Paul

I used the weed cloth for many years in raised beds and it worked well. I once left the cloth down for about three years and planted my spring garden in the same holes each year. I finally removed it when my raised bed soil had decreased so much, the soil in the beds was no higher than the soil around the beds. I was amazed at the number and variety of insects that had established residence under the cloth. They didn't hurt my garden because it kept on producing year after year. I always put my soaker hoses on top of the cloth in order to make sure I was getting even water distribution to each bed. The cloth works well, but I haven't used it since I removed it a few years ago. I've found it more pleasurable to simply pull a few weeds every morning. Its kinda like house cleaning. I like to keep every thing picked up and I like to pull the little weeds as they appear. Once you get the weeds under control, it isn't that hard to keep them under control.

Ted