Frost Damage and trimming!

Jeepdog · December 28, 2010

I live in SW Florida and my heirlooms are all going strong. About 35 total. The weather is colder then normal this time of year and I am having a difficult time keeping them covered from the freeze. I have strung X-mas lights on the branches and covered with sheets, blankets and burlap. And used cloths pins to keep the covers together so that there is no openings for frost to entered. This has worked well as long as we don't have a prolonged freeze. We had a drop in temperature the other night and I did get some damage. I trimmed back the damaged leaves and watered well and with the warm weather that followed, they all survived. Now, we have another freeze with expected 4 hours below freezing. I checked from last night and I got more damage... I read last week, somewhere that you should not cut the damage back until Feb because you run the risk of damage to the new growth should another freeze hit. So, the question is, what should I be doing? I always trim back to a joint where it is not damaged and do a nice long slow watering after damage. Is this the correct thing to do after freeze damage? I know that some folks turn their sprinklers on all night to keep the plants warm and I have considered this but not sure if I want to do this as we are on well water and I don't like the idea of the pump running all night long. Any other ideas would be much appreciated.

tam91 · December 28, 2010

I covered plants with plastic, and tucked gallon jugs of hot water in with the plants at night when it was too cold. Perhaps that might help.

**carolyn137** · December 28, 2010

Living in the tundra as I do I've had lots of experience with frost damage.

I think it's best to not trim at all which opens up new wounds. Just let the damaged leaves drop naturally. Don't fertilize either. Just let them repair themselves naturally and use all their energy to do so without added fertilizer diverting growth elsewhere.

I'm glad to see you used sheets and burlap b'c, and now Tam I'm just sharing with you, frost can bind the plastic to the foliage and cause even more damage than if you used sheets or some other natural fabric. That;s the experience that I and many others have had.

Just my long time frost/freeze experience.

I was talking with Linda Sapp at TGS in Fort Myers this AM and it was 34 there and she was giving me an update on the strawberry fields to the north of her and the summer squash and other veggies to the south of her. And when I asked about the citrus groves she said at one place when they opened some oranges there were already ice xstals there. Someone told me that it's expected that the cost of OJ and other citrus products is expected to go up 3x.

Worth1 · December 28, 2010

I was going to post when this thread first came out that is would just let the damaged parts fall off.
The reason I didn't is because I thought people would think I was crazy or just lazy.

But really I have had this happen before and I just let the plant do it's own thing.
Mostly because I had way too many plants to go around and manicure like they were toe nails or something.

I am so glad Carolyn stepped in and said to not bother with them as she is much more respected on her opinion than myself.

I dont take tomato growing too seriously I just let the darn things grow and only look at the leaf color to determine what I need to do with them.

Worth

tam91 · December 29, 2010

Thanks Carolyn - I remember that now that you've said it, about the plastic contacting the plants. Dumb me, I forgot - when I did that, the plants weren't very large, and I had cages - so the plastic didn't touch the plants.

Sorry for the bad advice there.

b54red · December 29, 2010

One thing that I have done several times with some success is to spray the plants with a water hose until they are dripping wet just before dark. If the freeze is not too long or too far below freezing I usually get little or no damage.

**carolyn137** · December 29, 2010

I am so glad Carolyn stepped in and said to not bother with them as she is much more respected on her opinion than myself.

*****

That my friend Worth is not at all true and you know it.

I may know more about frost and freeze damage than you do, living where you are and I don't mean Alaska, but you know a heck of a lot about tomatoes as well.

Worth1 · December 29, 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by carolyn137

That my friend Worth is not at all true and you know it.

I may know more about frost and freeze damage than you do, living where you are and I don't mean Alaska, but you know a heck of a lot about tomatoes as well.

Carolyn this coming from you is a real honor, thank you very much it may very well be the best Christmas present I have ever had.

Worth

Jeepdog · December 30, 2010

So you all are saying to leave the damaged leaves in place and let nature takes its course? And, not to cover the plants but to spray with water till wet if the freeze is not too long? How long is too long. As stated before, I have considered letting the sprinkler run all night long, but I hate having the well pumps run all night long.

Wi-sunflower · December 30, 2010

You don't need a whole lot of water to protect from just a couple of degrees of low temps. 0.1 inch / hour is all that is needed unless you are getting down in the twenties. That comes out to less than 2,700 gallons / hour / ACRE. Calculate it down to the small fraction of an acre most would want to protect and it's only a couple of hundred gallons or less.

If you can find some of the micro sprinklers or misters like are used in landscape systems, those will work well enough and shouldn't keep your well running constantly. Many of those type misters are very small and only put out about 0.1 or 0.2 gal. They often are installed in poly hose with a barb. If you can run a line above your plants and put in 1 micro about every 3-5 ft, that should be enough to protect them.

The only issue with those micro sprinklers is that you need to have at least 20 lbs pressure at the sprinklers, not at the well. If you are using too much hose to get to your garden, you won't have enough pressure to run them decently.

I have also done the milk jugs with water next to the plants and under a cover and that can work OK if the temps don't get too low. Here is a page I have on my web site about how to do it for spring/small plants. It's an idea adapted from something that was in Organic Gardening many years ago. My neighbor would do that with big CRW cages set out early May and when he would take the plastic off in mid to late June the plants would be growing out the top of the 4 ft tall cages. http://knapps-fresh-vegies.netfirms.com/tips.html

Adapt any and all ideas to what you are able to do and you may come up with your own system.

Carol

Jeepdog · December 30, 2010

So I just leave the damaged leaves in place? And do not trim back? I don't want to sound stupid, just want to make sure I am doing the best I can for my plants...

Worth1 · December 31, 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeepdog

So I just leave the damaged leaves in place? And do not trim back? I don't want to sound stupid, just want to make sure I am doing the best I can for my plants...

Yep thats all you need too do which is nothing.

Worth

December 28, 2010	#1
Jeepdog Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Punta Gorda Posts: 10	Frost Damage and trimming! I live in SW Florida and my heirlooms are all going strong. About 35 total. The weather is colder then normal this time of year and I am having a difficult time keeping them covered from the freeze. I have strung X-mas lights on the branches and covered with sheets, blankets and burlap. And used cloths pins to keep the covers together so that there is no openings for frost to entered. This has worked well as long as we don't have a prolonged freeze. We had a drop in temperature the other night and I did get some damage. I trimmed back the damaged leaves and watered well and with the warm weather that followed, they all survived. Now, we have another freeze with expected 4 hours below freezing. I checked from last night and I got more damage... I read last week, somewhere that you should not cut the damage back until Feb because you run the risk of damage to the new growth should another freeze hit. So, the question is, what should I be doing? I always trim back to a joint where it is not damaged and do a nice long slow watering after damage. Is this the correct thing to do after freeze damage? I know that some folks turn their sprinklers on all night to keep the plants warm and I have considered this but not sure if I want to do this as we are on well water and I don't like the idea of the pump running all night long. Any other ideas would be much appreciated.

December 28, 2010	#3
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	Living in the tundra as I do I've had lots of experience with frost damage. I think it's best to not trim at all which opens up new wounds. Just let the damaged leaves drop naturally. Don't fertilize either. Just let them repair themselves naturally and use all their energy to do so without added fertilizer diverting growth elsewhere. I'm glad to see you used sheets and burlap b'c, and now Tam I'm just sharing with you, frost can bind the plastic to the foliage and cause even more damage than if you used sheets or some other natural fabric. That;s the experience that I and many others have had. Just my long time frost/freeze experience. I was talking with Linda Sapp at TGS in Fort Myers this AM and it was 34 there and she was giving me an update on the strawberry fields to the north of her and the summer squash and other veggies to the south of her. And when I asked about the citrus groves she said at one place when they opened some oranges there were already ice xstals there. Someone told me that it's expected that the cost of OJ and other citrus products is expected to go up 3x. __________________ Carolyn

December 29, 2010	#7
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	I am so glad Carolyn stepped in and said to not bother with them as she is much more respected on her opinion than myself. ***** That my friend Worth is not at all true and you know it. I may know more about frost and freeze damage than you do, living where you are and I don't mean Alaska, but you know a heck of a lot about tomatoes as well. __________________ Carolyn

December 28, 2010	#2
tam91 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Crystal Lake IL Posts: 2,484	I covered plants with plastic, and tucked gallon jugs of hot water in with the plants at night when it was too cold. Perhaps that might help.

December 28, 2010	#4
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	I was going to post when this thread first came out that is would just let the damaged parts fall off. The reason I didn't is because I thought people would think I was crazy or just lazy. But really I have had this happen before and I just let the plant do it's own thing. Mostly because I had way too many plants to go around and manicure like they were toe nails or something. I am so glad Carolyn stepped in and said to not bother with them as she is much more respected on her opinion than myself. I dont take tomato growing too seriously I just let the darn things grow and only look at the leaf color to determine what I need to do with them. Worth

December 29, 2010	#6
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	One thing that I have done several times with some success is to spray the plants with a water hose until they are dripping wet just before dark. If the freeze is not too long or too far below freezing I usually get little or no damage.

December 30, 2010	#9
Jeepdog Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Punta Gorda Posts: 10	So you all are saying to leave the damaged leaves in place and let nature takes its course? And, not to cover the plants but to spray with water till wet if the freeze is not too long? How long is too long. As stated before, I have considered letting the sprinkler run all night long, but I hate having the well pumps run all night long.

December 30, 2010	#10
Wi-sunflower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 2,591	You don't need a whole lot of water to protect from just a couple of degrees of low temps. 0.1 inch / hour is all that is needed unless you are getting down in the twenties. That comes out to less than 2,700 gallons / hour / ACRE. Calculate it down to the small fraction of an acre most would want to protect and it's only a couple of hundred gallons or less. If you can find some of the micro sprinklers or misters like are used in landscape systems, those will work well enough and shouldn't keep your well running constantly. Many of those type misters are very small and only put out about 0.1 or 0.2 gal. They often are installed in poly hose with a barb. If you can run a line above your plants and put in 1 micro about every 3-5 ft, that should be enough to protect them. The only issue with those micro sprinklers is that you need to have at least 20 lbs pressure at the sprinklers, not at the well. If you are using too much hose to get to your garden, you won't have enough pressure to run them decently. I have also done the milk jugs with water next to the plants and under a cover and that can work OK if the temps don't get too low. Here is a page I have on my web site about how to do it for spring/small plants. It's an idea adapted from something that was in Organic Gardening many years ago. My neighbor would do that with big CRW cages set out early May and when he would take the plastic off in mid to late June the plants would be growing out the top of the 4 ft tall cages. http://knapps-fresh-vegies.netfirms.com/tips.html Adapt any and all ideas to what you are able to do and you may come up with your own system. Carol