Top 5 small !Bulgarian Triumph is Numero uno!

[beefyboy]

I was told by many growers here that tomatoes do not have the flavor as when grown up North. These were people who had moved down here from Northern states and had brought with them there favorite types and then tried them here with little or even no success. Being in business for myself for the last 18 years in the fitness and health industry I had met a lot of of these vegetable enthusiasts. NJ always stands out because they had the biggest stories to tell! lol .
Growing in the very Deep Southern part of Florida it is much different than Northern Florida which has its problems as well. With the higher humidity and then some, it is hard to get big flavor out of tomatoes and that is what got me into heirlooms in the first place. Trying to match the flavor of when I grew them so much more easily up North in Illinois was a task. Even though the flavors here will never be as pronounced, there are many that are very good tasting to excellent.
Here is my top 5 in the 2-5 oz. range! Bulgarian Triumph rings true to what I have heard!, This tomato sings and and zings with flavor!!. Usually here in Florida I see that they will be in the 2-3 oz range max. but I don't care, I even like there intensity better than Sungold!!. Our sun is tropical and when it is 85 degrees here, it is so much more intense and will toughen up the skins quickly so I use shade cloths.

Here is my top 5!

1. Bulgarian Triumph
2. Early Girl Improved PL
3. Goose Creek pink
4. Bills Berkeley pink
5. Jaune Flamme

[fortyonenorth]

Thanks for the list. I'm growing Bulgarian Triumph this year for precisely the same reason. And, I agree, even in a blah year, Jaune Flammee has a wonderfully intense flavor.

[kath]

Hmmm...I may have to put Jaune Flamme back on the list. Have to say, beefboy, that it's a surprising list from a seeker of sweet tomatoes!

Kath

[sprtsguy76]

I'll agree with you about Bulgarian T, it is one heck of a tomato. I grow it every year, I've seen it described as being 2-4 oz but I usually get 1-2 oz size fruit. Only if I could fit the taste of Bulgarian T into a beefsteak it would be a perfect world.

Damon

[beefyboy]

Hey Damon! I bought the seed because it seemed like a good one but I got the most excited about that tomato after reading your post one time. You inspired me on that one!! So I will give you some credit on that one. I thought we have similar tastes by what I read when you post. Same with Kath!
Hey Kath! I like them sweet but not just sweet, I need complexity of the sweet flavors to make it a top favorite.
Biggest dissapointments of the season were!
1. Earl of Edgecomb
2. Sandul Moldovan
Sandul was not sweet at all and mushy and earl was acid tasting with no sweetness at all, a complete dud. I am sure both of these must taste better grown somewhere else but here blah.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by beefyboy

Hey Damon! I bought the seed because it seemed like a good one but I got the most excited about that tomato after reading your post one time. You inspired me on that one!! So I will give you some credit on that one. I thought we have similar tastes by what I read when you post. Same with Kath!
Hey Kath! I like them sweet but not just sweet, I need complexity of the sweet flavors to make it a top favorite.
Biggest dissapointments of the season were!
1. Earl of Edgecomb
2. Sandul Moldovan
Sandul was not sweet at all and mushy and earl was acid tasting with no sweetness at all, a complete dud. I am sure both of these must taste better grown somewhere else but here blah.

Beefy, I've been yelling about how good Bulgarian T is for many many years. As for sizes, I had to look at my book to see what I got b'c I got my seeds over 20 years ago from an SSE friend in IL, and I said 2-4 oz in clusters of about four. When folks start talking about on the vine cluster tomatoes in the store I come right back with Bulgarian Triumph as a suggestion for some home grown ones.

I'm sorry you're having so many disappointmens . I've been sending seed to two friends in the Miami area for over a decade, which, ahem, is pretty far south in FL and they have no problems getting tasty fruits from the varieties I send them.

The key to growing tomatoes down there is to sow seeds around Xmas to early Jan, and get those plants out by late Feb, or so, so they have time to set and mature fruits before the high heat and humidity kicks in. And my friends do a Fall crop as well which I love b'c sometimes they send me a box of fruits as a Xmas present.

Earl of Edgecombe and Sandul Moldovan were both varieties I introduced, the former from a friend in England, the latter from the Sandul family who were being sponsored in the US by the wife of the head of the English Dept at a local HS. She's an immigration lawyer as well and once Andy, her DH, knew that I was looking for some heirloom varieties he and Tanya were able to get several for me.

Yes, I'm also the person who would threaten her students with failing grades unless they brought me seeds for some heirloom varieties, and they did, that is bring them, not flunk the course.

[beefyboy]

Hello Carolyn!
How are you? I actually have been quite happy with the flavors of most varieties I have grown but what I am saying is the growing conditions are much different here and most people give up and call it quits. You would have to live here and grow here to truly know. Like any area, certain tomatoes just do not do well. Like I mentioned, Earl of Edgecomb was a beautiful tomato for me in apprearance but had terrible flavor even in the wonderful envirement I created for it. Sandul Moldovan was a spitter also. At about 5 ft. away my Early girl improved sat in her earthbox pumping out sweet as honey tomatoes that all my friends are always begging for, including my parents two houses away. You are fighting many more problems here and fluctuation of humidity will change the flavors dramatically. I have been setting out crops for twenty years here Carolyn and the key to success is having enough time to get the fruit ripe, that is tomatoes 101, lol especially here since time is of the essense. My tomatoes go out at beginnning Oct. if possible and then again if I choose in early Jan in my greeenhouse. If I put them out in Beg. Feb like you mentioned, it is almost too late because your pushing the 90 degree mark at your 60th day of them being in the ground or in my earthboxes and they start dropping flowers like mad.
You mentioned two crops one time in an article and I chuckled at what you said!! You can be into freezes on Dec. 1st. with high winds. That means your tomato plants had been in the ground less than 50 days!! When you have low temps with high humidity, 30 feels like 10! so what do you do then Carolyn?? I will tell you! you better be growing in a greenhouse like I do or have earthboxes that you can push into your garage. (Miami is not the same weather as here! it is tropical and we are semi tropical, a BIG DIFFERENCE!!!) That gives you less than 60 days before a freeze to get tomatoes,. Tell me what heirloom tomato produces in that amount of time? Two season crops in my parts do not usually work and more times than not, fail. We had 14 days straight last year with temps in the 20,s and low 30's. Not many going to make it in that climate unless you know something I don't?
I know my area quite well and know what I can get away with out here, not as easy as you think! Just ask my Dad who helped me twice move earthboxes in my garage in 35 degrees in the dark. They stayed in the garage for over 10 days straight.

[carolyn137]

All I know about growing tomatoes in way south FL is that I'm told when to send the seeds, they let me know they've arrived, and then I get the feedback on those varieties which in general is very good.

No doubt they, like you, have good and bad seasons, and I do know that the past two years there have been serious problems with freezes and how to tell if the plants were frozen and what they can do about it, so I tell them, frost savvy person that I am from growing tomatoes in the tundra region.

[MargeH]

Beefy,

You are enough farther south from me that you are a little warmer. I usually grow some fall plants, but mostly cherries and small fruits like Kimberly. The last two winters have been harder because of the lower temps (I lost my plants this year when I was away for Christmas and wasn't there to take at least the smaller plants into the garage). In some ways the colder temps in 2009-2010 was a godsend for my 2010 spring garden because it beat back the whiteflies and I didn't get TYLCV until Oct. Last year was the first spring in 5 years that I have stayed virus free. I don't expect to be that lucky this year because the temps have been warmer sooner.

I have been starting my seedlings on the schedule that Carolyn said (seeds started in late Dec.-early Jan.) but this year I experimented with a few and started seeds earlier in Dec. Several of those plants are loaded with tomatoes and I have had a couple of ripe ones from Monomakh's Hat. Because I grow in pots and Earthboxes, I think that I will back my seed starting time at least to early Dec. next year and I will carry them inside if the weather is cold again.

I have Bulgarian Triumph and Flamme this year for the first time. I am ready to see how they do for me.

Marjorie

[kath]

Grew probably 40 pinks last year and Sandul Moldovan is the only one I'm making room for this year to leave room for the "newbies"...it was that good. What a difference soil and climate make!

Three of your top 5 made the cut for this year, so I'm hoping they like PA better than my fave Sandul Moldovan liked FL!

[beefyboy]

Hey Kath!
I was anticipating that Sandul tom. more than words can say and what a beauty it was in appearance. First one was mushy and no taste, second one came and I figured it would be much better but it was the same, and so on!!!. It was the best part of the season also for growing Because in the winter months they are sweeter and humidity is lower. Jan. and Feb. they are so good then comes later near summer and taste drops off significantly. That is why I started growing in the greenhouse in earthboxes in 1994. Heirlooms as we all know need 85 days or better and I was lucky to get 60 before the first freeze.
Actually Marjorie! Sarasota averages about 2-4 degree's warmer than Pt. Charlotte due to the Gulf warming the air, I am on the Harbor and do not have that Gulf air effect. I followed and tracked it every day of the winter this season in order to control my greenhouse temps. But still, we are pretty close and much of the time the same temp. I have my restaurant not too far from you in Venice on Jacaranda and 41.
I start my seeds in Dec. also if wanting to put more in if mine take a hit in the greehouse or just wear down. Usually Dec 1st. and put out by Jan. 5th-10th to get a big jump. If growing outside I will put out in Jan. still but in walla waters to protect them so I can get a 25-30 day head start . I have a special soil that consists of 50% worm castings,50% native soil and Bugzy's Manure (my rabbit) for the top 4-5 inches and also thousands of red worms working it for me. This is for growing in Ground obviously and I do it every 3rd year since we all know how are diseases are beyond crazy here.
Special note!
I stopped in to talk with Warden Farms in Punta Gorda Fl and they grow Organically and sell there produce at many different locations out here and this is what she told me. They were originally from the Northeast of Florida and moved down here. They grew many heirlooms in Northern Florida but down here have since stopped due to the many diseases and lack of a long enough growing season.
You will all laugh at this one and how names change with tomato varieties! She told me they only grow one tomato and it is Prudens purple brandywine!! lol I responded by saying so you grow brandywine and Prudens Purple! she responded back that they only grow one named prudens Purple Brandywine. I said unless something has changed that tom. is called Prudens Purple with a taste similar to brandywine but is reffered to as an early brandywine type. I sure did not want to get into a debate on it since she took the time to talk to us and was having a meeting in her barn with many guests waiting on her!
This Brandywine name is sure a mess now and will be getting worse! I urge all who have named there tomatoes after Brandywine to adopt other names for them so all will benefit in the future. Let that legendary tomato remain just that so it stands out on it's own. We owe it that considering it was the sole reason so many people got into growing heirloom tomatoes in the first place!

[beefyboy]

Hey Damon! I agree with you on the size of your Bulgarian Triumph. I put all my tomatoes on my scale that is dead accurate and found most in the 1 1/2 -21/2 oz range with one at 3 oz. I have been thinking that if I can figure out how to get that taste in a beefsteak, I could be a hero on Tomatoville!! hahaha
Ok, how is this!! the closest beefsteak to come close in flavor character to me is Earls Faux!! (at least grown in the swamp out here) I know it is not quite as zingy but complexity of sweetness is close considering it is a monster! and my biggest producer this year on top of that sooooo good of flavor.

[beefyboy]

that last part is 2 1/2 oz for bulgarian.

[b54red]

Beefy I'm glad to see you mentioned Bill's Berkley Pink. I just potted mine up a couple of days ago and they will probably go out in the next two weeks or so. Let me know how it does during the really hot times when most tomatoes give up. Last year it actually produced really good during the time most tomatoes wouldn't even set fruit and kept right on producing despite 100 degree days and 90 degree nights.

I won't lie to you and tell you it is easy or a sure thing but you should definitely be able to grow fall tomatoes where you live. I grow fall tomatoes and I am further north than you are. The trick is to get a few to live through the mid July plant out and that is one tough chore. It is so hot when I start planting fall tomatoes that I frequently lose most of the plants within days. I just keep replacing them up til late August until I get 25 or so fairly healthy plants. If a plant doesn't start out strong I pull it and replace it. I don't have time to baby a plant in the fall so it is better to try a new one. Some years the heat, diseases and pests are so bad that only a few plants will ever produce much but it is so nice to have those nice vine ripened tomatoes right up til the first hard freezes. The best producing varieties for me the past couple of fall seasons were in order of productivity Big Beef, Indian Stripe, Jetsetter, Linnie's Oxheart, BTD Pink, Marianna's Peace, Eva Purple Ball, Carbon, Red Siberian, Black Krim, and Stump of the World. I kept them pruned to 2 or 3 stems and cut of the growth tips in mid November, I sprayed the heck out of them, and I started watering them like crazy at the first sign of blossoms until I got a good fruit set.

It sounds to me like you need to grow more of the black tomatoes since you like the complex flavors. They tend to be much better tasting when the temperatures are really hot. As a matter of fact I have found their flavor a bit mild until it really heats up and then they shine. If you can keep that black crud off of them they really seem to do better than most of the pinks and reds during the high heat periods. I had Indian Stripes, JDs Special C Tex, Black Krim and BTD Pinks from late spring til the first freezes and the fruit was much better after the interminable summer heat arrived.

If you save the seed for Bulgarian Triumph or have any to spare I would love to try it.

[beefyboy]

Hi b54! Will be glad to send you some tomorrow.
You are as bad as me Bill with the growing methods! I have pushed the limits like you too and lost 42 plants two years ago and it was not even July!! it was Oct where we hit 107 heat index for about 10 days, and I was hardening off my plants to put in the earthboxes. I was ill about that ordeal for months. I will not try July out here any more, not even solar fire plants can handle it then. I cannot tell you how many years I did experiments with those months under different screens, shadeclothes, you name it, I tried it. It was almost a full time job at that time!! lol
I had my large greenhouse until 2004 when the major hurricane hit are area and I lost my house, car, and all I owned. my greenhouse was 20 ft. wide by 40ft. long and 19 ft. tall. I had it custom built to fit my two mango trees in it plus room to grow all my different tomatoes. It rolled up 8 ft. all the way around for complete ventilation so when it started to get out of season for growing , it stayed somewhat cool still and acted as a shadecloth.
Now I have my 20 ft. round and love it. Ventilation is great with 4 doors all the way around that are about 4 ft. wide by 4 ft. tall and zipper free which I like very much. (Shelter systems out of California) is the company. It is also 10 ft tall. You take it down when the season is over and requires no tools. It will last up to 4 times as long since the high heat it will never see. If anyone has any questions I will be glad to answer about this greenhouse which is priced at about $1,000.00 which is a steal! It is the best I have seen for humid conditions and would be great for places like Alabama and Tenn.
Now as far as black tomatoes go! I have grown almost every one that has appealed to me! Black Krim (grew it in 1994-96 (good tomato and heavy yielding), Carbon: (not at all impressed but beautiful tomato to look at, Dana's Dusky Rose: (just an average tomato to me, have grown it twice), Indian Stripe (good tomato but did not handle the heat out here and production was low. J.D Special c-tex: I must say that for me it is hands down the best black and in my top 5 all time list. When I mentioned complex sweetness I meant sweetness which has complexity of sweet flavors mingling at the same time, not just one tone of sweetness! I think Goose Creek is like that to me and so is J.D, and Earls Faux. The blacks do not have this to me and many are blah grown here.
They have not handled the heat out here neither, all have not lasted any longer than my pinks and Kelloggs Breakfast remarkably has out lasted all my tomatoes this year.

HERE IS MY BIGTIME FLOP LIST OF THE YEAR AWARD!!

I had more than 3 other people taste testing with me on most ocassions so I am not just giving you my opinion. I grew 42 varieties this year and most were good to very good!!, it was a great year with my new Greenhouse!

All were grown in Earthboxes!!!!

1. Sandul Modovan: maybe my biggest flop! mushy, blah, and worthless!
2. Chapman: if you like acid and blah, then this is the one for you! (At least when grown here). best looking red I have grown though and plenty of them to boot with enormous size. Was still waiting for a good one after the fifth one and ended up chopping it down.
3. Earl of Edgecomb: blah, did nothing for anyone tasting it and acidic)
4. Gigante Palina: Skins like leather with an average at best taste).
5. Prue: average taste at best, ugly plant, and few of them.
6. Dr Wyches: My beloved favorite yellow orange type which tasted blah this year. Maybe should not have grown Orange Minsk at the same time because this was a mismatch,what a difference!!

Biggest winners I have never grown til now!
1. Earls Faux (big taste and big yield)
2. Bulgarian Triumph
3.Goose Creek
4. Bills Berkeley (you will never run out of tom. with this one, long with consistently good flavor) Only negative is it cracks when near the end of ripening!
5. Orange Minsk (sweetest large orange I have grown with early heavy cropping) Only negative was prone to BER more than most others but Calcium Chloride took care of that.

Now I am Jealous! we are winding down now out here and you Northerners are cranking up!!

Happy Gardening!!