An idea I had this year to test out some indeterminates in pots...what do you think?

**nctomatoman** · May 2, 2011

So as always I have loads of stuff I want to grow, but the prime spots for indeterminate varieties is gone (the driveway edge areas). Here's my thought...

I am going to grow the ones I really want to try (including some of yours, Carolyn, and all of Reinhard's hearts) in 5 gallon containers in the driveway - but severely prune to 1-2 main stems, just until the first (maybe second?) blossom cluster sets - then top them carefully and continue to prune - so essentially force some fruit on a much shorter, easier to maintain plant. This will give me the chance to see and taste the fruits and save seeds.

Has anyone tried this? What do you think? I am thinking I can get an additional 20 or more indeterminates grown out this way.....

ddsack · May 2, 2011

Should work in theory, but I had trouble keeping up with the pruning when I tried a similar thing in-ground a while ago. I had an unused 4'x12" raised bed with a cattle panel down the center, that I put my unwanted extra seedlings in. Spaced them about a foot apart on both side of the panel. The plan was to prune to one stem up the panels. Well, it went ok at first, pinching out the new suckers as soon as I saw them, but before too long, I relented because the main vine looked so pathetic and skinny, ok -- maybe I will have two leaders each. Then we went on a weeks vacation, and the plants exploded with growth in all directions while I was gone. Somehow, I never did remove as much vegetation as I originally planned. By the end of the season, there were tangles of vines everywhere. I just can't find it in my heart to be a severe pruner!

As far as topping during the active growing season (as opposed to fall when the weather slows growth) I will be interested to see if you think this helps to ripen fruit faster. I wonder if indeterminates during good growing conditions will just continue to try to put their effort into producing more new suckers as fast as you can remove them, instead of giving up and diverting the energy to the fruit.

I'm glad you are going to try this, and look forward to your results. With 20 plants, you'll have enough to draw some conclusions.

barkeater · May 2, 2011

Craig,

Check out this link to a pdf file for the Florida Weave. There is a great section on pruning that shows the proper way to prune to 2 stems.
I can't see why you can't top the plant after you get the fruit set you want. I'm sure you'll be pruning suckers galore after that but maybe growing them in just a 5 gallon pot will help. Good luck!

http://njaes.rutgers.edu/pubs/public...asp?pid=FS1102

Heritage · May 2, 2011

Craig,

I raise all of my greenhouse tomatoes in 5 gal. nursery pots filled 1/2 to 2/3 full of potting mix. I prune all of them to one stem (except cherries get 2 or 3) and grow with clips on strings that hang from an overhead support.

As mentioned previously, the pruning can be labor intensive, but it's not unmanageable. I have to water daily and probably could water more often for optimum growth but I am usually interested in early tomatoes so I keep them on the dry side.

As long as you are experimenting I would like to see you use 3 variations on each variety:

1. Prune to one stem, top after 2 trusses have set fruit.
2. Prune to one stem, don't top at all.
3. Prune to one stem, don't top, remove all blossoms except for first 2 trusses.

Compare for earliness and flavor.

Of course, that means you will need 60 pots instead of 20. But it's a small price to pay for science.

Steve

maf · May 2, 2011

Very similar to the "standard" way tomatoes are grown in the UK, except we usually either allow four flower trusses to set, or allow to grow to a pre-determined height or a certain date and then top. When topping the plant remember to allow 2 or 3 leaves to remain above the last fruit truss, for a little shade.

The only problem I can see with only allowing one or two blossom clusters to set is that the fruits may get unusually large, giving a false impression of the type. I don't know what the limiting factor is with your exact growing situation, but if you can accomodate the height I would allow 3 or 4 trusses to set. Maybe decide on a max height and top the plants at that point, however many fruit trusses they have?

The pruning is dead easy if you approach it right. You need to be able to see the main stem, to make sure you get all of the suckers, (shouldn't be a problem with a single row of plants), and just pinch out the side shoots when they are big enough to pinch. I usually inspect my plants daily and any pinching out becomes part of the natural routine, without adding any extra time. If there is any part of the plant you cannot see properly, you can almost guarantee that a two foot sucker will originate from that point.

I have also heard of a "Southern" pruning technique, where all of the sideshoots are allowed to grow a couple of leaves before pinching out, in order to shade the plant. If the plants are close together this should not be necessary, even in your hot climate, but it obviously depends on your individual scenario.

Good luck.

Jeannine Anne · May 2, 2011

Craig when if the UK we grew all out tomatoes in pots, wether in the greenhouse ot outside.

In the greenhouse we used much smaller pots than are used here ,10"-12" diameter a the top. I used to sink the base of the pot into a UK growbag, a flat bag of potting soil mix, the growbag is what a lot of folks grew in totally, 2 plants to a bag.

Outside I used pots about the size of 4/5 gallon buckets, never anything bigger but many folks just grew in the growbags

Indeterminates were pruned to 1 central stem.

XX Jeannine

**carolyn137** · May 2, 2011

You've been given some good ideas Carig, si let us know what you decide to do.

As for me, now that any plants I grow, that is Freda grows for me, have be grown here at home no way would I use 5 gal containers, all my grow-bags are 12 gal and no way would I prune them.

Just me who wants all she can get from each plant and pruning to a stem or two isn't my style.

Big Hutch · May 2, 2011

I have grown both Cherokee Purple and Arkansas Travelers successfully in 7 gallon containers. For indeterminates 7 gallons is the smallest pot I would recommend.

They make a nursery pot called a "squat 10" that is a perfect pot if you can find it.

Just some thoughts from an amateur.

Robbie

b54red · May 3, 2011

I always start out with the intention of keeping my plants to two or three stems when growing in containers and I usually do top them just to stop from having to fool with such long stems. The trick is to stay on them and not let up and not let your heart get in the way of your goal. It can sometimes be very difficult to cut a perfectly good stem or sucker that has a nice cluster of blooms. I know you can have some pretty high humidity up there in NC so keeping the plant open will be a big help in preventing disease. I always have the biggest problems when I give in and let too many stems develop with the resulting dense foliage to be followed shortly by massive disease problems. I've never had fruit get too large for the type in a 5 gallon container. I have a couple of plants now in 3 gallon pots with only a couple of stems and they have a very good fruit set but the frequent watering is a pain. I have a few in 5 gallon containers and I think that is a good size for what you are trying to accomplish.

travis · May 3, 2011

Tomatoman, I have done what you propose, in my case mainly for seeds. Some varieties did well, and others got fruit scald from lack of foliage. As far as height goes, some varieties still got rather lanky simply because it took four or five internodes to set fruit on the side shoots, and when limiting the side shoots to just a couple, sometimes high heat prevented fruit set, and all I ended up with was the first couple of sets off the main stem anyway. But you can grow indeterminates in 5-gallon buckets so long as you water daily in the hotter parts of the season, especially when using Promix, which dries out rather quickly.

Fred Hempel · May 3, 2011

Craig,

I bonzai tomatoes like that every winter in the greenhouse, so I can maximize the number of plants. I keep everything trimmed so that only one fruit cluster ripens, and the plants have 2 or 3 leaves (also trimmed) to feed it.

When I really like something, I erect a cage and let it grow out.

sprtsguy76 · May 3, 2011

Craig I'm doing that very same thing myself, the main goal was to sample/taste as many new to me varieties as possible in my small bakyard. I've pretty much have all of these trained to 2-3 vines. I did this with a couple varieties last and thought this would be and excellent way to sample several varieties. Here is a couple pictures.

Damon

Fred Hempel · May 3, 2011

Nice pots, Damon..

sprtsguy76 · May 4, 2011

Hey Fred, and thanks. Gonna give ya a buzz soon and come down and see the farm.

Damon

**nctomatoman** · June 25, 2011

Well, all I can say is that the small pot, extreme prune indeterminate project is working really, really well.

here is my blog post for today - some of the tomatoes in these pics are in the small pots (Green Giant, Coyote) - but they have all set fruit on two or more trusses and most are now top pruned at about 3-4 feet tall.

http://nctomatoman.weebly.com/1/post...today-wow.html

May 2, 2011	#1
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	An idea I had this year to test out some indeterminates in pots...what do you think? So as always I have loads of stuff I want to grow, but the prime spots for indeterminate varieties is gone (the driveway edge areas). Here's my thought... I am going to grow the ones I really want to try (including some of yours, Carolyn, and all of Reinhard's hearts) in 5 gallon containers in the driveway - but severely prune to 1-2 main stems, just until the first (maybe second?) blossom cluster sets - then top them carefully and continue to prune - so essentially force some fruit on a much shorter, easier to maintain plant. This will give me the chance to see and taste the fruits and save seeds. Has anyone tried this? What do you think? I am thinking I can get an additional 20 or more indeterminates grown out this way..... __________________ Craig

May 2, 2011	#2
ddsack Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Northern Minnesota - zone 3 Posts: 3,231	Should work in theory, but I had trouble keeping up with the pruning when I tried a similar thing in-ground a while ago. I had an unused 4'x12" raised bed with a cattle panel down the center, that I put my unwanted extra seedlings in. Spaced them about a foot apart on both side of the panel. The plan was to prune to one stem up the panels. Well, it went ok at first, pinching out the new suckers as soon as I saw them, but before too long, I relented because the main vine looked so pathetic and skinny, ok -- maybe I will have two leaders each. Then we went on a weeks vacation, and the plants exploded with growth in all directions while I was gone. Somehow, I never did remove as much vegetation as I originally planned. By the end of the season, there were tangles of vines everywhere. I just can't find it in my heart to be a severe pruner! As far as topping during the active growing season (as opposed to fall when the weather slows growth) I will be interested to see if you think this helps to ripen fruit faster. I wonder if indeterminates during good growing conditions will just continue to try to put their effort into producing more new suckers as fast as you can remove them, instead of giving up and diverting the energy to the fruit. I'm glad you are going to try this, and look forward to your results. With 20 plants, you'll have enough to draw some conclusions. __________________ Dee **************

May 2, 2011	#3
barkeater Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NE Kingdom, VT - Zone 3b Posts: 1,439	Craig, Check out this link to a pdf file for the Florida Weave. There is a great section on pruning that shows the proper way to prune to 2 stems. I can't see why you can't top the plant after you get the fruit set you want. I'm sure you'll be pruning suckers galore after that but maybe growing them in just a 5 gallon pot will help. Good luck! http://njaes.rutgers.edu/pubs/public...asp?pid=FS1102 __________________ barkeater

May 2, 2011	#6
Jeannine Anne Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 1,557	Craig when if the UK we grew all out tomatoes in pots, wether in the greenhouse ot outside. In the greenhouse we used much smaller pots than are used here ,10"-12" diameter a the top. I used to sink the base of the pot into a UK growbag, a flat bag of potting soil mix, the growbag is what a lot of folks grew in totally, 2 plants to a bag. Outside I used pots about the size of 4/5 gallon buckets, never anything bigger but many folks just grew in the growbags Indeterminates were pruned to 1 central stem. XX Jeannine Last edited by Jeannine Anne; May 2, 2011 at 10:20 PM.

May 2, 2011	#7
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	You've been given some good ideas Carig, si let us know what you decide to do. As for me, now that any plants I grow, that is Freda grows for me, have be grown here at home no way would I use 5 gal containers, all my grow-bags are 12 gal and no way would I prune them. Just me who wants all she can get from each plant and pruning to a stem or two isn't my style. __________________ Carolyn

May 2, 2011	#4
Heritage Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: San Diego Posts: 1,255	Craig, I raise all of my greenhouse tomatoes in 5 gal. nursery pots filled 1/2 to 2/3 full of potting mix. I prune all of them to one stem (except cherries get 2 or 3) and grow with clips on strings that hang from an overhead support. As mentioned previously, the pruning can be labor intensive, but it's not unmanageable. I have to water daily and probably could water more often for optimum growth but I am usually interested in early tomatoes so I keep them on the dry side. As long as you are experimenting I would like to see you use 3 variations on each variety: 1. Prune to one stem, top after 2 trusses have set fruit. 2. Prune to one stem, don't top at all. 3. Prune to one stem, don't top, remove all blossoms except for first 2 trusses. Compare for earliness and flavor. Of course, that means you will need 60 pots instead of 20. But it's a small price to pay for science. Steve

May 2, 2011	#5
maf Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: England Posts: 512	Very similar to the "standard" way tomatoes are grown in the UK, except we usually either allow four flower trusses to set, or allow to grow to a pre-determined height or a certain date and then top. When topping the plant remember to allow 2 or 3 leaves to remain above the last fruit truss, for a little shade. The only problem I can see with only allowing one or two blossom clusters to set is that the fruits may get unusually large, giving a false impression of the type. I don't know what the limiting factor is with your exact growing situation, but if you can accomodate the height I would allow 3 or 4 trusses to set. Maybe decide on a max height and top the plants at that point, however many fruit trusses they have? The pruning is dead easy if you approach it right. You need to be able to see the main stem, to make sure you get all of the suckers, (shouldn't be a problem with a single row of plants), and just pinch out the side shoots when they are big enough to pinch. I usually inspect my plants daily and any pinching out becomes part of the natural routine, without adding any extra time. If there is any part of the plant you cannot see properly, you can almost guarantee that a two foot sucker will originate from that point. I have also heard of a "Southern" pruning technique, where all of the sideshoots are allowed to grow a couple of leaves before pinching out, in order to shade the plant. If the plants are close together this should not be necessary, even in your hot climate, but it obviously depends on your individual scenario. Good luck.

May 2, 2011	#8
Big Hutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Oakdale, Louisiana Posts: 18	Pot Size I have grown both Cherokee Purple and Arkansas Travelers successfully in 7 gallon containers. For indeterminates 7 gallons is the smallest pot I would recommend. They make a nursery pot called a "squat 10" that is a perfect pot if you can find it. Just some thoughts from an amateur. Robbie

May 3, 2011	#9
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	I always start out with the intention of keeping my plants to two or three stems when growing in containers and I usually do top them just to stop from having to fool with such long stems. The trick is to stay on them and not let up and not let your heart get in the way of your goal. It can sometimes be very difficult to cut a perfectly good stem or sucker that has a nice cluster of blooms. I know you can have some pretty high humidity up there in NC so keeping the plant open will be a big help in preventing disease. I always have the biggest problems when I give in and let too many stems develop with the resulting dense foliage to be followed shortly by massive disease problems. I've never had fruit get too large for the type in a 5 gallon container. I have a couple of plants now in 3 gallon pots with only a couple of stems and they have a very good fruit set but the frequent watering is a pain. I have a few in 5 gallon containers and I think that is a good size for what you are trying to accomplish.

May 3, 2011	#10
travis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 2,984	Tomatoman, I have done what you propose, in my case mainly for seeds. Some varieties did well, and others got fruit scald from lack of foliage. As far as height goes, some varieties still got rather lanky simply because it took four or five internodes to set fruit on the side shoots, and when limiting the side shoots to just a couple, sometimes high heat prevented fruit set, and all I ended up with was the first couple of sets off the main stem anyway. But you can grow indeterminates in 5-gallon buckets so long as you water daily in the hotter parts of the season, especially when using Promix, which dries out rather quickly.

May 3, 2011	#11
Fred Hempel Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Sunol, CA Posts: 2,723	Craig, I bonzai tomatoes like that every winter in the greenhouse, so I can maximize the number of plants. I keep everything trimmed so that only one fruit cluster ripens, and the plants have 2 or 3 leaves (also trimmed) to feed it. When I really like something, I erect a cage and let it grow out.

May 3, 2011	#12
sprtsguy76 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2007 Location: Santa Clara CA Posts: 1,125	Craig I'm doing that very same thing myself, the main goal was to sample/taste as many new to me varieties as possible in my small bakyard. I've pretty much have all of these trained to 2-3 vines. I did this with a couple varieties last and thought this would be and excellent way to sample several varieties. Here is a couple pictures. Damon

May 4, 2011	#14
sprtsguy76 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2007 Location: Santa Clara CA Posts: 1,125	Hey Fred, and thanks. Gonna give ya a buzz soon and come down and see the farm. Damon

June 25, 2011	#15
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	Well, all I can say is that the small pot, extreme prune indeterminate project is working really, really well. here is my blog post for today - some of the tomatoes in these pics are in the small pots (Green Giant, Coyote) - but they have all set fruit on two or more trusses and most are now top pruned at about 3-4 feet tall. http://nctomatoman.weebly.com/1/post...today-wow.html __________________ Craig