Lorraine Beauty?

[Boutique Tomatoes]

Following this link to a russian site in the Icicle Series thread, the picture of the Lorraine Beauty (#137) variety caught my eye.

Google translate came back with this description:

Medium early, sredneroslye, beautiful variety. Fruits ploskookruglye, corrugated, like peeled tangerine slices, bright - red, thick, weighing up to 500, the winner of many exhibitions.

Anyone know anything about it? I can't find anyting other than a reference to Beauty of Loraine on tomodori which just leads to the name on ventmarin and no other information.

If it's really a medium early red with fruits up to 17-18oz and that fruit form, I'm wanting it.

[nctomatoman]

Boy, those are some wild varieties on that site - and when Google translates the page, there are some pretty unusual phrases that I am sure are not quite right!

[Boutique Tomatoes]

Originally Posted by nctomatoman

Boy, those are some wild varieties on that site - and when Google translates the page, there are some pretty unusual phrases that I am sure are not quite right!

Yes there are! Digging around some more I found that Tania has traded with them a bit, so it is possible to get seeds through.

[Tania]

Originally Posted by marktutt

Following this link to a russian site in the Icicle Series thread, the picture of the Lorraine Beauty (#137) variety caught my eye.

Google translate came back with this description:

Medium early, sredneroslye, beautiful variety. Fruits ploskookruglye, corrugated, like peeled tangerine slices, bright - red, thick, weighing up to 500, the winner of many exhibitions.

Anyone know anything about it? I can't find anyting other than a reference to Beauty of Loraine on tomodori which just leads to the name on ventmarin and no other information.

If it's really a medium early red with fruits up to 17-18oz and that fruit form, I'm wanting it.

#137 is 'Beauty Lottringa' - http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Beauty_Lottringa

[Boutique Tomatoes]

Originally Posted by Tania

#137 is 'Beauty Lottringa' - http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Beauty_Lottringa

Thank you! Google translate has failed me once again. Too bad your seeds were wrong this year!

[Tania]

mark, how about another ribbed tomato ?

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Sierra_Leone

[carolyn137]

If you like highly ribbed varieties you can also look at Pink Accordian and Zapotec Pleated, aka Zapotec.

But that's not why I posted.

Tania, I could swear that I've seen Beauty of Lorraine listed in the SSE Yearbook years ago and perhaps not the same as the Lottridge one that Ake was distributing and Neil grew.

I refuse to use the online SSE Yearbook listings but if you do and have a few minutes could you see if anything comes up for Beauty of Lorraine? I've been looking through some older Yearbooks but am tired of doing so.

There is a Lottridge in the UK but Lorraine is in France.

[retiree]

Yes Carolyn
1996 Seed Savers Yearbook
Beauty Of Loraine
NC LEC--Original Source NSL 26889
indeter. productive,very flat 4-8 oz.red fruit, slightly lobed,partially hollow with seeds in cluster around core,mild flavor.USDA collection 1994.
I only checked 1996
Neil G. (Canada)

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by retiree

Yes Carolyn
1996 Seed Savers Yearbook
Beauty Of Loraine
NC LEC--Original Source NSL 26889
indeter. productive,very flat 4-8 oz.red fruit, slightly lobed,partially hollow with seeds in cluster around core,mild flavor.USDA collection 1994.
I only checked 1996
Neil G. (Canada)

Well good on me b/c it means I still do have some brain cells that work.

So it was submitted to the USDA as Beauty of Loraine way back when. I didn't get back as far as the 1996 Yearbook so thanks so much for this is the second time you've found something I knew was there but just didn't have the time to pour over those Yearbooks. Thanks so much.

What I'm wondering is if I ever grew it myself? When Craig and I were getting seeds out of the USDA when that was possible, most of the time we split them and sent seeds to each other. But my data books for back then I don't think I have b/c inbetween moves I made at the time some of them got misplaced.

Knowing Craig he probably still has seeds for it in a vial somewhere. And I'll put it on my general search mission when I have the time to do that for several folks who are looking for some older seeds of some varieties to see if I have seeds somewhere. Maybe not if I didn't list it myself b'c we often co-listed the same varieties from the USDA at the same time.

Right now my priorities are finding out from Lee And Shoe and Neil and Craig what 2011 seeds I will have available and how many and then it means tracking down more info from the persons who sent me the seeds, and then it means deciding if I have enough to SSE list or not and then, well, you get the picture.

[Boutique Tomatoes]

I grew Zapotec and Tlacolula, it was year two or three for Zapotec. They just haven't been terribly productive in my cool climate, so I'd love an alternative that was a little shorter season and more productive here.

I found that the Beauty of Loraine is available from the USDA as PI 644874 if it can't be found anywhere else, and I'll be on the hunt for the others mentioned here.

Thanks everyone!

[Tania]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

If you like highly ribbed varieties you can also look at Pink Accordian and Zapotec Pleated, aka Zapotec.

But that's not why I posted.

Tania, I could swear that I've seen Beauty of Lorraine listed in the SSE Yearbook years ago and perhaps not the same as the Lottridge one that Ake was distributing and Neil grew.

I refuse to use the online SSE Yearbook listings but if you do and have a few minutes could you see if anything comes up for Beauty of Lorraine? I've been looking through some older Yearbooks but am tired of doing so.

There is a Lottridge in the UK but Lorraine is in France.

Hi Carolyn,
I did a search through all the SSE Yearbooks since 1988, and nothing came up for 'Beauty of Lorraine', but there was lots of hits for 'Beauty of Lottringa'. And yes, Ake listed 'Beauty of Lottringa' since 1998.

EDIT: sorry , I goofed up - I searched for 'Lorraine' and not 'Loraine'.

So the Beauty of Loraine was listed in 1995-1997 by Craig L.

[Boutique Tomatoes]

Originally Posted by Tania

mark, how about another ribbed tomato ?

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Sierra_Leone

I love them all, but the well formed pleated ones look so striking on a plate I'm a sucker for them every time.

Your picture "Sierra Leone - sliced fruit. 2009-08-26" looks absolutely beautiful. I can just imagine setting that down in front of someone for a late summer dinner and ending up walking through the garden with them marveling at all the shapes and colors they didn't know existed.

[nctomatoman]

Yes, we both grew it Carolyn and were quite unimpressed. It was indeterminate, flat, just somewhat lobed, a bit hollow, quite bland in flavor - I do have seeds but they are from the mid 90s. I got it from the USDA when I saw it listed in the MIchigan State Bulletin as a historic variety. Definitely red, though - and the lobing was not that extreme.

[Boutique Tomatoes]

Originally Posted by nctomatoman

Yes, we both grew it Carolyn and were quite unimpressed. It was indeterminate, flat, just somewhat lobed, a bit hollow, quite bland in flavor - I do have seeds but they are from the mid 90s. I got it from the USDA when I saw it listed in the MIchigan State Bulletin as a historic variety. Definitely red, though - and the lobing was not that extreme.

Thanks for the clarification. If it's not that deeply lobed/pleated then the nice tasting Italian lobed varieties are probably a better tasting alternative for that shape and color.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by nctomatoman

Yes, we both grew it Carolyn and were quite unimpressed. It was indeterminate, flat, just somewhat lobed, a bit hollow, quite bland in flavor - I do have seeds but they are from the mid 90s. I got it from the USDA when I saw it listed in the MIchigan State Bulletin as a historic variety. Definitely red, though - and the lobing was not that extreme.

And it's the ones that I seldom save seeds from and that has to be one that I was REALLY unimpreesed with to not save seeds from and I have all the seeds I ever saved back to about 1991. But no Master list and in vials in 100 place scintillation boxes, many in envelopes and not all in one place, ahem.

Mark, I can't see growing it.

But about your comment about it being available via the USDA as a PI number.

Back when Craig and I were getting lots of varieties out of the USDA, and that was in the early to mid 90's, others were as well as had many before us.

But it then became very apparent that there was widepread abuse of the USDA PC GRIN acquisitions. Many folks were using it as a seed catalog and asking for seeds that had laready been gotten out and were already available in a public manner.

Then came a person whose name I won't mention who went from message site to message site with a rant saying that since the USDA was supported by tax dollars that everyone should open access.

it got really bad. He had referred to the USDA station at Ames, IA so I e-mailed them and asked for a ruling, so to speak, on who could request seeds. The response is on the drive of a long gone computer but the essence of it was that folks now had to fill out an application and justify what they wanted and why and what their own personal background was.

I asked that they also inform the folks at the USDA Station at Geneva, NY, which is and was solely responsible for tomatoes so that there would be a uniform policy.

Back then if I requested seeds from Geneva they'd come back with a PI number but if they didn't have them the request would go to the NSSL. aka NSL, which is the ultimate backup in Fort Collins, CO and they would come back with a NSSL ( national seed storage lab) number.

Lottringa from Ake who got it from the UK looks similar to Beauty of Loraine, but the former is said to be pink and the latter definitely red. It could be a simple epidermis mutation , I maintain some of the same varieties in both the pink and red versions but only send out seeds for what the original should be.

Finally, on this issue, 90% of the PCGRIN listings are outdated breeding lines. When Craig and I were getting seeds from Geneva the head there was Dr, Jim McFerren ( spelling?) whom we both got to know quite well. They were growing tomatoes in Geneva for seed with ZERO isolation distance. he decided that there should be a conference composed of tomato specialists of all kinds to see which acquisitions should be dropped, mainly of those breeding line ones.

There never were many heirloom varieties there, but wuite a few older commercial varieties and Craig was pretty sure that he, mainly, and me, secondarily, got almsot all of those out.

Jim tried to set up that Conference and asked Craig and I to be participants, but he could get no money to support that Conference so it was dropped. Which is why the bulk of the USDA listings are still primarily outdated breeding line aquisitions.

If it's ribbed that you're after please go to this link:

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=11937

Which is from the seed and plant sources Forum here and there's a wonderful discussion of the many ribbed varieties from Italy, France, etc., which should give you some great ideas for varieties.

But if I were you i'd skip the Beauty of Lorriane one for consideration of the many other wonderful tasting ribbed varieties discussed in that above link.

Hope that helps.