Fluorescent Lighting For Seedlings - No Longer In "DENIAL" (pics)

rnewste · February 11, 2012

For years (actually Decades), I have always started seeds, then when about 4 weeks old, potted them up and sat them in the kitchen window, then transplanted them outside a few weeks later. They were always spindly, but struggled through.

But, after seeing Worth's photos in his "25 Days" thread, I finally bit the bullet and bought a T5 light. As I was limited to a grow table measuring 24" by 44", my options were restricted. I settled on one Hydrofarm "Jump-Start" 24 inch light. These were the seedlings when I set up the light on Jan 21:

But, the plants developed a sharp "lean" toward the single 23W fluorescent bulb:

I then adapted a second Jump-Start onto the base unit:

But again, the seedlings were quite distorted in their growth habit (Jan 28):

So, I then ganged 3 of the JumpStart lights together now totaling 72W at 6400 degrees Kelvin on Feb 4:

Today (Feb 11), the plants are between 10" to 12" tall, and doing pretty well:

The "moral" of the saga is that years (no, Decades) ago, I should have taken the advice of others and used fluorescent lighting on my seedlings.

Raybo

tjg911 · February 11, 2012

i used to use the window sill and the results were lousy, spindly plants, few leaves. i made a grow light stand, 2 shop lights side by side, 2 shelves (could use a 3rd at floor level but never needed to) and the results were amazing. i raise almost everything i grow under these lights and even pole beans this year vs direct seeding for a jump start on the season.

i've posted this before but here it is again.

http://www.tsflowers.com/plantstand.html

tom

sprtsguy76 · February 11, 2012

Looking good Ray! Now if you get them in a cooler room like a garage where they would grow taller slower and become more stalky.

Damon

Pyrrho · February 11, 2012

Great setup! Any reason you don't just get them outside? Is it still too cold where you are?

rnewste · February 11, 2012

Damon,

I have now cut back the "On-time" from the original 12 hours - - to now 8 hours per day. The 3 lamps provide a pretty even lighting pattern over the 2 trays.

Pyrrho,

I normally put the plants outside in mid-March - - but this year with our temps running 5 to 15 degrees above historical normals, I am now aiming to plant out on March 1. I have two sets of back-up plants growing now, in case we get hit with a hard freeze. "Belt and Suspenders", so to speak...

Raybo

Gobig_or_Gohome_toms · February 11, 2012

Raybo I have been using the the same setup for about 3 years now and have had good success. I agree 1 per flat is not enough I line them up and space them as needed I have about 10 now but not sure how many will be in use this year due to the upcoming adoption I will not be starting as may this year. Here is a link to my setup from years past for anyone that is interested. I had a couple of the older T12 lights in this post but now have all T5 lights.

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...ghlight=gobigs

Craig

Michael · March 14, 2012

When you say "T5", are you talking about standard 28 watt, or 54 watt High Output?
Just wondering. The old 40 watt T12 lamps would be fine if you are mixing a diversity of color temps.
I like to mix 3000K and 5000K (available in T5, T8 and T12). Long time lighting salesman, Mike

Pyrrho · February 12, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnewste

Damon,

I have now cut back the "On-time" from the original 12 hours - - to now 8 hours per day. The 3 lamps provide a pretty even lighting pattern over the 2 trays.

Pyrrho,

I normally put the plants outside in mid-March - - but this year with our temps running 5 to 15 degrees above historical normals, I am now aiming to plant out on March 1. I have two sets of back-up plants growing now, in case we get hit with a hard freeze. "Belt and Suspenders", so to speak...

Raybo

Raybo,

I'm with you on the 'Belt and Suspenders' approach -- I always have back-ups as well. In my case, I get my seedlings hardened off as soon as weather permits, and keep them outside as much as possible. I'm usually able to accomplish this around the time the plants are ready for their first potting up (first or second set of true leaves).

I figure hardening off is one of the few steps where something can really go wrong, and if it does, I'd rather have it happen sooner rather than later. This also avoids the need for anything beyond a shop light or two to get things started.

With your relatively mild climate, I thought you'd be able to do the same. On the other hand, you've got about twice as many plants as me (not counting things other than tomatoes), so it would be that much more of a pain to haul everything in and out each day. It's quality time spent with them, though!

amideutch · February 12, 2012

It's called "Watt Power" My setup has a total of 264 watts. 6ea 26 watt CFL's and 3 ea 36 inch 36 watt power twists. Looking good Ray. When are you going to open up your Tomato-R-Us store. And don't forget that book your writing called "Tomatoes, Doing it in the Spare Bedroom".

Ami

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=10818

janezee · February 12, 2012

Well, Raybo, if you're giving in, so am I. Just since I read this thread yesterday, someone offered me 2 - 4-footers with grow lights, and 2 - 2-footers. Time for some pvc and a few joints.

j

salix · February 12, 2012

Jane, what type of joints are you contemplating - for your 'grow room'?

janezee · February 12, 2012

SEAMSFASTER · February 12, 2012

I ran the numbers several times and just could not justify purchasing T-5's or even T-8's over the old T-12's. The T-5 bulbs were 8 times and the fixtures 3 times the price. It would take over six years to make up the difference in energy savings. And that's assuming the bulbs never need to be replaced.

I use the T-12 bulbs in tight over young seedlings. When it's time to transplant, the larger seedlings go under metal halide lights (I lucked out and got these fixtures for free - rescued from the trash).

I keep the window open at night to try to get the temperature under 60°. I also try to give all seedlings at least 30 minutes per day of fan time to stimulate stalks to strengthen.

janezee · February 12, 2012

I'm new to this lighting thing. Are the MH lamps making it so hot in there that you have to 'keep the window open at night to try to get the temperature under 60°.'?
j

SEAMSFASTER · February 12, 2012

I've met several people who assume that metal halide lights are very hot. Halogen bulbs are hot, while MH's are not. I've measured the temperature several times - 4" under the bulbs is a steady 80° F, very nice for tomato plants which are kept at least 12" away.

In my "nursery" room, I run up to five 400-watt bulbs simultaneously. Yes, if I kept the windows and doors closed all day long, the heat might build up to 90°, but it's not a good idea to stop air circulation anyway, especially for tomatoes.

I keep the lights on timers, 16 hrs. on, 8 hrs. off. The lights are off at night so there would be no accumulation of heat anyhow. It's my understanding and experience that tomato plants really benefit from cooler night time temperatures in the 50-60° range. This helps prepare them for outdoor conditions and (I'm assuming) helps prevent spindly growth.

February 11, 2012	#1
rnewste Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Campbell, CA Posts: 4,064	Fluorescent Lighting For Seedlings - No Longer In "DENIAL" (pics) For years (actually Decades), I have always started seeds, then when about 4 weeks old, potted them up and sat them in the kitchen window, then transplanted them outside a few weeks later. They were always spindly, but struggled through. But, after seeing Worth's photos in his "25 Days" thread, I finally bit the bullet and bought a T5 light. As I was limited to a grow table measuring 24" by 44", my options were restricted. I settled on one Hydrofarm "Jump-Start" 24 inch light. These were the seedlings when I set up the light on Jan 21: But, the plants developed a sharp "lean" toward the single 23W fluorescent bulb: I then adapted a second Jump-Start onto the base unit: But again, the seedlings were quite distorted in their growth habit (Jan 28): So, I then ganged 3 of the JumpStart lights together now totaling 72W at 6400 degrees Kelvin on Feb 4: Today (Feb 11), the plants are between 10" to 12" tall, and doing pretty well: The "moral" of the saga is that years (no, Decades) ago, I should have taken the advice of others and used fluorescent lighting on my seedlings. Raybo

February 11, 2012	#2
tjg911 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: zone 5b northwest connecticut Posts: 2,570	i used to use the window sill and the results were lousy, spindly plants, few leaves. i made a grow light stand, 2 shop lights side by side, 2 shelves (could use a 3rd at floor level but never needed to) and the results were amazing. i raise almost everything i grow under these lights and even pole beans this year vs direct seeding for a jump start on the season. i've posted this before but here it is again. http://www.tsflowers.com/plantstand.html tom __________________ I need a hero I’m holding out for a hero ‘til the end of the night He’s gotta be strong And he’s gotta be fast And he’s gotta be fresh from the fight I need a hero I’m holding out for a hero ‘til the morning light He’s gotta be sure And it’s gotta be soon And he’s gotta be larger than life

February 12, 2012	#9
amideutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E Posts: 5,041	It's called "Watt Power" My setup has a total of 264 watts. 6ea 26 watt CFL's and 3 ea 36 inch 36 watt power twists. Looking good Ray. When are you going to open up your Tomato-R-Us store. And don't forget that book your writing called "Tomatoes, Doing it in the Spare Bedroom". Ami http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=10818 __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!'

February 11, 2012	#3
sprtsguy76 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2007 Location: Santa Clara CA Posts: 1,125	Looking good Ray! Now if you get them in a cooler room like a garage where they would grow taller slower and become more stalky. Damon

February 11, 2012	#4
Pyrrho Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 75	Great setup! Any reason you don't just get them outside? Is it still too cold where you are?

February 11, 2012	#6
Gobig_or_Gohome_toms Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Zone 4 Lake Minnetonka, MN Posts: 967	Raybo I have been using the the same setup for about 3 years now and have had good success. I agree 1 per flat is not enough I line them up and space them as needed I have about 10 now but not sure how many will be in use this year due to the upcoming adoption I will not be starting as may this year. Here is a link to my setup from years past for anyone that is interested. I had a couple of the older T12 lights in this post but now have all T5 lights. http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...ghlight=gobigs Craig

March 14, 2012	#7
Michael Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Northern MO Posts: 10	When you say "T5", are you talking about standard 28 watt, or 54 watt High Output? Just wondering. The old 40 watt T12 lamps would be fine if you are mixing a diversity of color temps. I like to mix 3000K and 5000K (available in T5, T8 and T12). Long time lighting salesman, Mike

February 12, 2012	#10
janezee Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Whidbey Island, WA Zone 7, Sunset 5 Posts: 931	Well, Raybo, if you're giving in, so am I. Just since I read this thread yesterday, someone offered me 2 - 4-footers with grow lights, and 2 - 2-footers. Time for some pvc and a few joints. j

February 12, 2012	#11
salix Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: north central B.C. Posts: 2,310	Jane, what type of joints are you contemplating - for your 'grow room'?

February 12, 2012	#15
SEAMSFASTER Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: American Fork, Utah Posts: 160	I've met several people who assume that metal halide lights are very hot. Halogen bulbs are hot, while MH's are not. I've measured the temperature several times - 4" under the bulbs is a steady 80° F, very nice for tomato plants which are kept at least 12" away. In my "nursery" room, I run up to five 400-watt bulbs simultaneously. Yes, if I kept the windows and doors closed all day long, the heat might build up to 90°, but it's not a good idea to stop air circulation anyway, especially for tomatoes. I keep the lights on timers, 16 hrs. on, 8 hrs. off. The lights are off at night so there would be no accumulation of heat anyhow. It's my understanding and experience that tomato plants really benefit from cooler night time temperatures in the 50-60° range. This helps prepare them for outdoor conditions and (I'm assuming) helps prevent spindly growth.