Please help- can these young plants be saved??

luvmykitty · May 30, 2012

Hello-
I have these young plants that are wilting badly, I suspect fungus maybe. Two days ago, they were slightly wilted, so I gave a bit of water to them, thinking that they were thirsty. The next day, it was a little worse. I have not watered today , the soil is moist, but the wilting is worse. The edges of the leaves are wilting first, then the whole leaf. The newer leaf growth is wilted, but some of the larger leaves are mostly ok. The stems are not spotted or blotchy- still nice and green. What do you think this is- and how can I treat it? What is safe to use on these young plants? They are about 5-6 in tall. Can they be saved? I have included pics- I apologize for the poor quality, they are a bit dark (no flash).
Thank you!!

Atomic Garden · May 30, 2012

I think they can be saved. I just save a sunflower this way that was in real bad shape. I would put them into a bigger pot or into soil that has been loosened up. Make sure they get plenty of sun if it isn't too hot. Water with compost or worm tea in addition to a light foliar application. I can't see the pics too wel from my iPad but if you have leaves that are severely wilted to the point they are turning brown/black trim them off. All they do is add weight to the plant hindering it's return to life, but give it a few days after replanting. Curious what others will say, always looking for other methods myself.

kath · May 30, 2012

Are they still indoors? Already been hardened off outdoors? Have they been overwatered? Seeing any insects on them? Maybe you can get some better pics posted by taking some shots outdoors in bright light.

luvmykitty · May 30, 2012

They are still indoors (by a window), I've had them just a few days. I was just going to start hardening them off when I noticed the wilting. Have I kept them indoors too long? I don't think I overwatered- the first day i didn't water- watered the next 2 days just a bit, they are still small so not alot. The soil is still moist today; I haven't watered today, nor the last 2 days (was worried it might be a fungus). I do not see any bugs, I checked carefully. I've included better pictures.
(The last pic is a tomato plant in a different batch, not near the others. The black spots on 3 leaves have me worried. That one seems to be the only one with it. Blight?)
Thank you for your help.

dipchip2000 · May 30, 2012

I think they need sunshine

ron

kath · May 30, 2012

If you bought them they would already be hardened off and may have fared better if kept outside. How long have you had them? It's possible that they were already infected with disease- some of the pictures do indicate that possibility for sure but I'm not experienced enough to diagnose and prescribe- sorry I can't be more of a help. Wait until the soil feels dry below the surface before you water again, though.

Atomic Garden · May 30, 2012

They certainly need some sunlight. When you put them outside I would shelter them a bit from the wind until they firm back up. A bigger pot would speed that up. Just keep an eye on the spots. They might go away depending on the weather. Just keep the leaves dry.

LBlala · May 30, 2012

Any thoughts on how much production will be affected by early treatment/trauma(if it's not caused by insects/disease)? Like, none, 50-75% of prod over if they were babied from day one? No difference? Not worth the planting space if new ones are accessible? Have some in the same shape. Thanks..

Atomic Garden · June 2, 2012

Luvmykitty, did you try anything with these? How did it turn out so far if so?

RayR · June 2, 2012

Were these plants fed anything? If so, it looks like they got way too much.

**nctomatoman** · June 2, 2012

I assume (hope!) there are drainage holes in the pots. What sort of medium are they in? They actually look like they are waterlogged/drowning. Probably as others noted in need of some direct sun. Foliage looks like possible Early Blight or Septoria on lower foliage as well.

Fusion_power · June 2, 2012

That is a classic example of plants with too little sunlight, too much water, and improper nutrient balance in the soil mix. The water appears to have leached most of the nitrogen from the soil. Did you pour water into the top of the cups? This is the wrong way to water seedlings. ALWAYS put water in a tray and sit the seedlings in the tray so they absorb water from the bottom up into the roots. It may not seem important, but bottom watering vs top watering is a critical factor in growing seedlings because bottom watering does NOT leach out nutrients. In commercial greenhouses that use top watering systems, they routinely add soluble fertilizer to the water to replace nutrients that are leached out by the overhead spraying.

1. Get them outdoors into full sun as soon as possible. If they are not hardened off, they will need shade most of the day but direct sun early in the morning and late in the evening. You can do this if you plant them direct in the garden. Break small leafy limbs off of some trees and stick them in the ground beside the plants so they are shaded most of the day.

2. Give them an immediate low dose of a nitrogen fertilizer. Something like miracle grow 15-30-15 mixed 1 teaspoon to a gallon of water or use 4 tablespoons of seaweed emulsion that is 1% nitrogen to a gallon of water and use the gallon to water up to 20 plants. Put the water in a tray and let it soak up into the root ball, or if you are going to plant them in the garden, pour about 1/2 cup into each hole as you set out the plants.

3. After the fertilizer, do not water them until they show signs of lack of moisture. This is important, the roots on those plants will be brown and shriveled similar to the tops. They need time to recover and they need nutrients to do it with but they do not need more water which will cause soil fungi to grow.

4. You have 2 things going wrong with the leaves. The first is leaf margin necrosis. This is a stress condition caused by inadequate nutrient uptake. It should be treated by increasing phosphorus and potassium in the soil. Leaf margin necrosis is a physiological condition just like blossom end rot, but it is caused by potassium imbalance instead of calcium.

5. There are 2 small spots that may be early blight on 2 of the plants. Pull off those leaves and the plants should recover. Early blight is endemic to your area. It is a stress disease. When plants are as stressed as these, it is easy for fungi to take over. I am not certain that this is early blight, it is not possible to be sure from the photos so this is mostly a precaution. The leaves that look like early blight have brown spots in the middle of the leaves instead of on the margins.

DarJones

ginger2778 · June 2, 2012

What a great post Dar. I just learned alot! Thank you.

luvmykitty · June 2, 2012

Thank you all for the very helpful information. (DarJones, your post was very informative!) Yes, the pots have drainage holes and they look to be filled with proper soil medium. I followed the advice and am giving them outdoor light- shaded and late afternoon light so as not to burn them. I clipped the suspicious and dried / badly wilted leaves off. I will bottom water- I wasn’t doing that previously. Now a couple of them are leafless- the stems look healthy- will they sprout leaves and grow, or they done? The others seem to be slowly recovering, I hope. Luckily, I do have other healthy plants to transplant this week in the meantime. I will keep you posted on their progress.
Thanks again - J

May 30, 2012	#2
Atomic Garden Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2012 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 15	I think they can be saved. I just save a sunflower this way that was in real bad shape. I would put them into a bigger pot or into soil that has been loosened up. Make sure they get plenty of sun if it isn't too hot. Water with compost or worm tea in addition to a light foliar application. I can't see the pics too wel from my iPad but if you have leaves that are severely wilted to the point they are turning brown/black trim them off. All they do is add weight to the plant hindering it's return to life, but give it a few days after replanting. Curious what others will say, always looking for other methods myself. __________________ Tomatoes: Black Krim, Mortgage Lifter, Rainbow, Husky Cherry, Supersweet 100. Peppers: Jalapeño, Serrano, Chile De Arbol, Habanero, Trinidad Scorpion Butch T, Green Bell. Other: Cilantro, Cucumber, Sunflower, Strawberry, Genovese & Lime Basil, Pineapple, Tiger Melon.

May 30, 2012	#7
Atomic Garden Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2012 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 15	They certainly need some sunlight. When you put them outside I would shelter them a bit from the wind until they firm back up. A bigger pot would speed that up. Just keep an eye on the spots. They might go away depending on the weather. Just keep the leaves dry. __________________ Tomatoes: Black Krim, Mortgage Lifter, Rainbow, Husky Cherry, Supersweet 100. Peppers: Jalapeño, Serrano, Chile De Arbol, Habanero, Trinidad Scorpion Butch T, Green Bell. Other: Cilantro, Cucumber, Sunflower, Strawberry, Genovese & Lime Basil, Pineapple, Tiger Melon.

June 2, 2012	#9
Atomic Garden Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2012 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 15	Luvmykitty, did you try anything with these? How did it turn out so far if so? __________________ Tomatoes: Black Krim, Mortgage Lifter, Rainbow, Husky Cherry, Supersweet 100. Peppers: Jalapeño, Serrano, Chile De Arbol, Habanero, Trinidad Scorpion Butch T, Green Bell. Other: Cilantro, Cucumber, Sunflower, Strawberry, Genovese & Lime Basil, Pineapple, Tiger Melon.

June 2, 2012	#11
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	I assume (hope!) there are drainage holes in the pots. What sort of medium are they in? They actually look like they are waterlogged/drowning. Probably as others noted in need of some direct sun. Foliage looks like possible Early Blight or Septoria on lower foliage as well. __________________ Craig

May 30, 2012	#3
kath Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: zone 6b, PA Posts: 5,664	Are they still indoors? Already been hardened off outdoors? Have they been overwatered? Seeing any insects on them? Maybe you can get some better pics posted by taking some shots outdoors in bright light.

May 30, 2012	#5
dipchip2000 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Muskogee, Oklahoma Posts: 664	I think they need sunshine ron

May 30, 2012	#8
LBlala Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2012 Location: Washington DC - Zone 7a Posts: 21	Any thoughts on how much production will be affected by early treatment/trauma(if it's not caused by insects/disease)? Like, none, 50-75% of prod over if they were babied from day one? No difference? Not worth the planting space if new ones are accessible? Have some in the same shape. Thanks..

June 2, 2012	#10
RayR Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Cheektowaga, NY Posts: 2,466	Were these plants fed anything? If so, it looks like they got way too much.

June 2, 2012	#12
Fusion_power Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,251	That is a classic example of plants with too little sunlight, too much water, and improper nutrient balance in the soil mix. The water appears to have leached most of the nitrogen from the soil. Did you pour water into the top of the cups? This is the wrong way to water seedlings. ALWAYS put water in a tray and sit the seedlings in the tray so they absorb water from the bottom up into the roots. It may not seem important, but bottom watering vs top watering is a critical factor in growing seedlings because bottom watering does NOT leach out nutrients. In commercial greenhouses that use top watering systems, they routinely add soluble fertilizer to the water to replace nutrients that are leached out by the overhead spraying. 1. Get them outdoors into full sun as soon as possible. If they are not hardened off, they will need shade most of the day but direct sun early in the morning and late in the evening. You can do this if you plant them direct in the garden. Break small leafy limbs off of some trees and stick them in the ground beside the plants so they are shaded most of the day. 2. Give them an immediate low dose of a nitrogen fertilizer. Something like miracle grow 15-30-15 mixed 1 teaspoon to a gallon of water or use 4 tablespoons of seaweed emulsion that is 1% nitrogen to a gallon of water and use the gallon to water up to 20 plants. Put the water in a tray and let it soak up into the root ball, or if you are going to plant them in the garden, pour about 1/2 cup into each hole as you set out the plants. 3. After the fertilizer, do not water them until they show signs of lack of moisture. This is important, the roots on those plants will be brown and shriveled similar to the tops. They need time to recover and they need nutrients to do it with but they do not need more water which will cause soil fungi to grow. 4. You have 2 things going wrong with the leaves. The first is leaf margin necrosis. This is a stress condition caused by inadequate nutrient uptake. It should be treated by increasing phosphorus and potassium in the soil. Leaf margin necrosis is a physiological condition just like blossom end rot, but it is caused by potassium imbalance instead of calcium. 5. There are 2 small spots that may be early blight on 2 of the plants. Pull off those leaves and the plants should recover. Early blight is endemic to your area. It is a stress disease. When plants are as stressed as these, it is easy for fungi to take over. I am not certain that this is early blight, it is not possible to be sure from the photos so this is mostly a precaution. The leaves that look like early blight have brown spots in the middle of the leaves instead of on the margins. DarJones

June 2, 2012	#13
ginger2778 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Plantation, Florida zone 10 Posts: 9,283	What a great post Dar. I just learned alot! Thank you.

June 2, 2012	#14
luvmykitty Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Mercer County, PA Posts: 7	Thank you all for the very helpful information. (DarJones, your post was very informative!) Yes, the pots have drainage holes and they look to be filled with proper soil medium. I followed the advice and am giving them outdoor light- shaded and late afternoon light so as not to burn them. I clipped the suspicious and dried / badly wilted leaves off. I will bottom water- I wasn’t doing that previously. Now a couple of them are leafless- the stems look healthy- will they sprout leaves and grow, or they done? The others seem to be slowly recovering, I hope. Luckily, I do have other healthy plants to transplant this week in the meantime. I will keep you posted on their progress. Thanks again - J