Black Cherry Multiflora?

[EBHarvey]

One of my black cherry plants appears to be displaying a rather pronounced compound inflorescence on about half of its fruit trusses. At first I thought that the branches had simply split to create 2 normal currant-type trusses side by side as I've seen on other varieties, but a closer look revealed up to 3 or even 4 bifurcations on some of the trusses. Some of the newer flower clusters are almost indistinguishable from those of the blondekomfchen multiflora growing next to it (for the first time this year = no accidental cross).

I have some photos I'll put up later, but has anyone else seen this in a black cherry before?

[Tania]

Very interesting! Can't wait to see pictures.

Tatiana

[Heritage]

Originally Posted by EBHarvey

I have some photos I'll put up later, but has anyone else seen this in a black cherry before?

I had a BC plant a few years ago that was multiflora to a degree. (in photo) Unfortunately, my growouts from saved seed weren't consistent and I never pursued it to a point of stability. I'm anxious to see your photo and hopefully you will save seeds and follow up.

Steve

I had one like it this year, but since it was my first year to grow Black Cherry; I thought it was probably not unusual. Some trusses appeared to be multiflora while others were normal.

Ted

[Worth1]

You really need to save seeds from this critter to see if comes true.
You need to distribute said seeds for other people to grow out.

You need my address.

Please.
Pretty please.
Pretty please with a black cherry on top.
Somebody help a brother out here.

Worth

[nj07077]

I have never grown the black cherry but I grow the blondkumpfchen every year I would like too see some pics of your black cherrys!

[EBHarvey]

Here are some photos...

[EBHarvey]

I have a few more on another camera that show the bifurcations a little better - will get them up shortly.

Worth - I'm more than happy to share seeds and will make them available to anyone that wants them.

[carolyn137]

I've grown Black Cherry since the first year it was introduced by TGS and in all the years since then had never seen anyone post about a multiflora Black Cherry, so this is interesting to me.

So I went a googling to find out more about the genes involved, there are two of them, and will link to a general Google search about those genes and how they act in case anyone is interested.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=...iw=757&bih=403

I didn't read all the links but wondered about the chances of the multiflora BC acquiring it from other known multifloras in which case the fruits would still be dark b'c as far as I know most of the other multifloras are light colored except Riesentraube being red.

I know at least with Riesentraube that the number of blossom stalks with all those blossoms can vary widely, and did so in different years for me, and the number of blossoms that set fruit also varied widely as well.

[EBHarvey]

Hi Carolyn,

My first reaction was "where did that gene come from!" but the multiflora gene is recessive, so if it was acquired from another variety through accidental cross-pollination, it would have had to be multiple generations back, and I find it hard to believe that anyone saving seeds for commercial sale wouldn't have noticed that the F1 plant wasn't growing true to type. Surely a Reisentraube X Black Cherry or a Rose Quartz Multiflora X Black Cherry would be easy to spot, no?

Then I got to thinking....where did this gene come from in those other varieties? Rose quartz, for example...the multiflora variant seems to have simply appeared. So is this gene an incidental mutation that just happens to pop up every now and again like clear skin, green striping, chlorophyl retention, etc. that appear regardless of the gene being present in that particular plants parental lineage?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by EBHarvey

Hi Carolyn,

My first reaction was "where did that gene come from!" but the multiflora gene is recessive, so if it was acquired from another variety through accidental cross-pollination, it would have had to be multiple generations back, and I find it hard to believe that anyone saving seeds for commercial sale wouldn't have noticed that the F1 plant wasn't growing true to type. Surely a Reisentraube X Black Cherry or a Rose Quartz Multiflora X Black Cherry would be easy to spot, no?

Then I got to thinking....where did this gene come from in those other varieties? Rose quartz, for example...the multiflora variant seems to have simply appeared. So is this gene an incidental mutation that just happens to pop up every now and again like clear skin, green striping, chlorophyl retention, etc. that appear regardless of the gene being present in that particular plants parental lineage?

As I said above it seems to me that most of the mulitfloras I know of, and I'll add, are about the same small size as Black Cherry, so any transfer might well be dark colored similar to BC.

And there are two genes involved, not just one, so I don't know how that plays out either.

And one can breed multifloras, called milleufleurs, aka centiflors as Alan Kapuler's daughtrer did:

http://www.idigmygarden.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=27038

Several links in the above link.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...tomato&gs_rfai=


Above, check out the link that starts with Vegetable Seeds to see the Kapuler ones.

Steve, my eyes are blurry from watching so much tennis today, the US Open, so I'll read your link tomorrow.

[Heritage]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Steve, my eyes are blurry from watching so much tennis today, the US Open, so I'll read your link tomorrow.

Good, I need someone to explain what it means...

[Heritage]

Here is some interesting info on compound inflorescence:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...8/?tool=pubmed

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Heritage

Here is some interesting info on compound inflorescence:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...8/?tool=pubmed

Yes, I saw that link when I was Googling and when I saw the lead author, Zach Lippman I chuckled since when he moved to Israel to work with Dani Zamir, a well known tomato breeder, Zach wanted me to send him seeds for 1000 varieties for a project he was going to do.

I asked Glenn at Sandhill and I think Craig L to help out and we did eventually send him the seeds for 1000 tomatoes. I see this work was done in 2008 so it must have been when he was still in Israel.

Zach and family are back in the US and he's working at Cold Spring Harbor Lab. We've lost touch but sheesh Steve, if you want him yo interpret all of that for you I could give you his e-mail address.

I think it was reading the abstract that alerted me initially to the fact that there were two genes involved.

A lot in that very long article is beyond me, but not all and when the wind and snow are about maybe I can go back and make sense of at least some of it, but don't sit by the computer waiting for an e-mail from me.

[kurt]

I have sweet millions do it but only 3/4 up on plant and only 3-4 trusses.Saved seeds from those trusses hoping maybe the next planting would produce a whole plant that way but to no avail,just the same on that next generation.Did have Black Cherrys some years back do the same but not consistent the next batch.