Compost Bin Ants ~ Good or Bad?

Texas Blues · October 3, 2012

Hey y'all. I have an open compost pile in the corner of my backyard, mostly grass clippings, leaves and twigs etc. For my kitchen throwaways like egg shells, orange peels, coffee grounds et.al., I drilled holes in a 55 gal. wheeled trash bin and started using that. I cleaned my well over due rain gutters and got a good amount of fresh composting material to start it and with the addition of the kitchen refuse and occasional dry material it really is churning out some nice stuff for later use.

A couple weeks ago I went to turn the material over and noticed under the bin a nice little fire ant clubhouse where they hang out and sharpen their knives. I moved the bin a few feet away and a couple days later the spot where the ants had been now appeared lifeless and abandoned.

Yesterday when I went to toss my kitchen refuse and opened the lid I got a nice jolt. In the space of only a few seconds about 20 or so fire ants quickly began chomping on my flippy floppied feet. Upon further inspection, the ants have once again set up shop not only under the bin but inside amongst the compost as well.

So my question is this good or bad? Do they, like other ants, farm aphids and if so will the ants and aphids left to their own evil devices, contaminate my compost when I use it later? Temps are cooling down now so I don't heat from the compost itself killing them. If I use it in my raised beds could I be seeding them with the evil spawn of aphids? Or do the ants also have a beneficial use, such as aerating the compost?

My first instinct is to kill 'em all and let God sort it out but...

What say y'all?

I'd be much obliged for any advice.

Redbaron · October 3, 2012

Take some fresh green grass clippings and some hot manure (chicken manure works great) and 1 shovel full of dirt and fill up that bin mixed with the old semi compost you want to sterilise of pests.

It's going to get hot. Be sure to turn it now and then.

I don't know of any ants or aphids able to survive that.

If you can't get your compost to "kick off" for whatever reason, dig a deep trench and bury it.

HiPoha · October 3, 2012

I have a similar problem. My compost bin has a lot of tiny bugs and ants in there. The stuff inside is composting, I thought this was OK since this is my first composting I've done. If it gets worse I may have to spray it with sevin. Yeah, kill em all.

Texas Blues · October 3, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiPoha

I have a similar problem. My compost bin has a lot of tiny bugs and ants in there. The stuff inside is composting, I thought this was OK since this is my first composting I've done. If it gets worse I may have to spray it with sevin. Yeah, kill em all.

I dumped the whole bin out on the ground and spread it out.

The nest wasn't all that big I reckon and they were scrambling to get their eggs and what not and skedaddle.

Checked on it a bit ago and didn't see nary an ant. Hopefully they hauled off their aphid slaves too.

A few nice fat worms in their though.

I think sevin would kill off all the good bugs which I don't want to do.

I'd dig a trench and bury it as mentioned but I was really looking for an easy lazy man's way out.

I hate this north Texas clay and rate shoveling it almost as much fun as digging dry caliche.

habitat_gardener · October 3, 2012

When i have ants in my compost bin when I'm ready to sift it, I water it a little and then wait a day or two. They've usually moved on.

I don't have fire ants, though. I recall reading that Malcolm Beck recommended a molasses potion to control fire ants. You can google to find out the dilution.

All the other critters are supposed to be in the compost!! Springtails are beneficial, and I even welcome the centi/millipedes, sowbugs, earwigs that I usually find. In the summer I've found soldier fly larvae, which looked unappealing until I learned how fast they can process compostables into compost.

Redbaron · October 3, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Blues

I'd dig a trench and bury it as mentioned but I was really looking for an easy lazy man's way out.

I hate this north Texas clay and rate shoveling it almost as much fun as digging dry caliche.

so till a row and then dig a trench in the tilled soil. Lay on the compost including those fat worms. Then cover the whole thing. with loose soil.

That should do you.

I personally prefer no till. So I always try and make my compost hot enough to kill any seeds bugs pathogens etc... Then I use it for a side dressing.

I am lazier even than you are! Hehehe.

My Dad is even lazier. Every meal he separates the veggie scraps and meat scraps, feeds the meat scraps to the dog and then he blends his veggie kitchen scraps in a blender on high with some water added and flings the slurry in a wide arc out on the lawn! He bypasses composting completely! The grass off his front porch is very green!

But if I get a batch of compost that decided not to kick for whatever reason, I bury it so it doesn't cause massive weeds, blights, insect plagues etc in my garden.

greentiger87 · October 23, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redbaron

My Dad is even lazier. Every meal he separates the veggie scraps and meat scraps, feeds the meat scraps to the dog and then he blends his veggie kitchen scraps in a blender on high with some water added and flings the slurry in a wide arc out on the lawn! He bypasses composting completely! The grass off his front porch is very green!

Dude, this is genius! I'm finding more and more uses for my garden blender.

Cincinnati · October 11, 2012

don't put seven in your compost. It will contaminate your soil when you use the compost, and also kill the good soil organisms. I've had good results covering with small amounts of coffee grounds (fr. StarBucks), Diatomaceous Earth, and crushed ag. lime.

HiPoha · October 13, 2012

OK, no sevin. I was tempted to use it. My compost bin is a 55gal drum set up to rotate. If I keep rotating it often, some of the tiny bugs gets killed off by the tumbling mass inside. Somehow the heat in there is not hot enough to kill the bugs. I'll also try adding the lime and chicken manure.

Texas Blues · October 3, 2012

RB thats dang funny about your dad and lawn fert technique.

I reckon what I'll do tomorrow is rake everything back together and shovel it back into the been with additional material to get it rolling again. Last I checked the fire ants had 86'd themselves from the vicinity.

Digging. Plah!

greentiger87 · October 23, 2012

I just use boiling water for fire ants, assuming they're far enough away from anything important. It doesn't kill them all of course, because the heat just dissipates too fast. But it definitely will make them move, and the soil life will rebound faster than you can blink.

Cincinnati · October 24, 2012

Boiling water will kill the beneficial organisms in the compost. One option is to turn it several times per day. Ants don't stay where their abode is disturbed on an ongoing basis.

Is your drum sitting off the ground, like on concrete blocks?

I think the ants are attracted to sugar in the fruit scraps. I had the same problem.

I have a Mantis composT-Twin, while a batch is cooking, I place all my ingredients for the next batch in a pile on the ground I call a Pre-compost pile. My pre-compost pile is decomposing so well that I have compost at the bottom at the soil level. But I also have a plethora of bugs including mole cricket grubs and fire ants. I shovel them into the composter and I'm assuming the heat is killing them. Because when the batch finishes, there are no ants or grubs left. I know the ants could find a spot to crawl out, but I have never seen any on the outside of the barrel.

Once the compost is finished, ants will find it if you leave it on the ground .his is a huge problem. I don't want them in my raised beds. I hate getting bit and they ruin my garden.

WHen this happens, I have used the Diatomaceous Earth and a small amount of lime. But the best method was spreading it out on the drive and raking it out into a thin layer. I've also put it into a wheel barrow for a few days, wetting it, and packing it down.

October 3, 2012	#1
Texas Blues Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Republic of Texas Posts: 35	Compost Bin Ants ~ Good or Bad? Hey y'all. I have an open compost pile in the corner of my backyard, mostly grass clippings, leaves and twigs etc. For my kitchen throwaways like egg shells, orange peels, coffee grounds et.al., I drilled holes in a 55 gal. wheeled trash bin and started using that. I cleaned my well over due rain gutters and got a good amount of fresh composting material to start it and with the addition of the kitchen refuse and occasional dry material it really is churning out some nice stuff for later use. A couple weeks ago I went to turn the material over and noticed under the bin a nice little fire ant clubhouse where they hang out and sharpen their knives. I moved the bin a few feet away and a couple days later the spot where the ants had been now appeared lifeless and abandoned. Yesterday when I went to toss my kitchen refuse and opened the lid I got a nice jolt. In the space of only a few seconds about 20 or so fire ants quickly began chomping on my flippy floppied feet. Upon further inspection, the ants have once again set up shop not only under the bin but inside amongst the compost as well. So my question is this good or bad? Do they, like other ants, farm aphids and if so will the ants and aphids left to their own evil devices, contaminate my compost when I use it later? Temps are cooling down now so I don't heat from the compost itself killing them. If I use it in my raised beds could I be seeding them with the evil spawn of aphids? Or do the ants also have a beneficial use, such as aerating the compost? My first instinct is to kill 'em all and let God sort it out but... What say y'all? I'd be much obliged for any advice.

October 3, 2012	#2
Redbaron Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 4,488	Take some fresh green grass clippings and some hot manure (chicken manure works great) and 1 shovel full of dirt and fill up that bin mixed with the old semi compost you want to sterilise of pests. It's going to get hot. Be sure to turn it now and then. I don't know of any ants or aphids able to survive that. If you can't get your compost to "kick off" for whatever reason, dig a deep trench and bury it. __________________ Scott AKA The Redbaron "Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill Mollison co-founder of permaculture

October 3, 2012	#3
HiPoha Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Hawaii Posts: 130	I have a similar problem. My compost bin has a lot of tiny bugs and ants in there. The stuff inside is composting, I thought this was OK since this is my first composting I've done. If it gets worse I may have to spray it with sevin. Yeah, kill em all.

October 3, 2012	#5
habitat_gardener Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: California Central Valley Posts: 2,543	When i have ants in my compost bin when I'm ready to sift it, I water it a little and then wait a day or two. They've usually moved on. I don't have fire ants, though. I recall reading that Malcolm Beck recommended a molasses potion to control fire ants. You can google to find out the dilution. All the other critters are supposed to be in the compost!! Springtails are beneficial, and I even welcome the centi/millipedes, sowbugs, earwigs that I usually find. In the summer I've found soldier fly larvae, which looked unappealing until I learned how fast they can process compostables into compost.

October 11, 2012	#8
Cincinnati Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 7	don't put seven in your compost. It will contaminate your soil when you use the compost, and also kill the good soil organisms. I've had good results covering with small amounts of coffee grounds (fr. StarBucks), Diatomaceous Earth, and crushed ag. lime.

October 13, 2012	#9
HiPoha Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Hawaii Posts: 130	OK, no sevin. I was tempted to use it. My compost bin is a 55gal drum set up to rotate. If I keep rotating it often, some of the tiny bugs gets killed off by the tumbling mass inside. Somehow the heat in there is not hot enough to kill the bugs. I'll also try adding the lime and chicken manure.

October 23, 2012	#11
greentiger87 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Houston, TX - 9a Posts: 211	I just use boiling water for fire ants, assuming they're far enough away from anything important. It doesn't kill them all of course, because the heat just dissipates too fast. But it definitely will make them move, and the soil life will rebound faster than you can blink.

October 24, 2012	#12
Cincinnati Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 7	Boiling water will kill the beneficial organisms in the compost. One option is to turn it several times per day. Ants don't stay where their abode is disturbed on an ongoing basis. Is your drum sitting off the ground, like on concrete blocks? I think the ants are attracted to sugar in the fruit scraps. I had the same problem. I have a Mantis composT-Twin, while a batch is cooking, I place all my ingredients for the next batch in a pile on the ground I call a Pre-compost pile. My pre-compost pile is decomposing so well that I have compost at the bottom at the soil level. But I also have a plethora of bugs including mole cricket grubs and fire ants. I shovel them into the composter and I'm assuming the heat is killing them. Because when the batch finishes, there are no ants or grubs left. I know the ants could find a spot to crawl out, but I have never seen any on the outside of the barrel. Once the compost is finished, ants will find it if you leave it on the ground .his is a huge problem. I don't want them in my raised beds. I hate getting bit and they ruin my garden. WHen this happens, I have used the Diatomaceous Earth and a small amount of lime. But the best method was spreading it out on the drive and raking it out into a thin layer. I've also put it into a wheel barrow for a few days, wetting it, and packing it down.