new bed

[TightenUp]

i'm starting a new garden bed in my backyard and would like some input. the backyard is thick grass, which i removed today. i then turned over the soil and removed as much rock as possible.

i have some composted rabbit manure which is being stored for the winter which i plan to use in the spring. i also have plenty of grass clippings and leaf mold just starting the compost process now which i can also add during the spring either before plant out of as a side dressing.

the input i'm looking for is what else can i do to the soil to be best prepared for next season? the soil is very dense and heavy so i'm wondering if i should try and lighten it up a bit. i know compost will do this over time but wont help much next season.

any thoughts?

fyi- no access to any manure in my neck of the woods. closest place is over hour drive which i was hoping not to make

[TightenUp]

i also have all the dug up grass in patches surrounding the new bed. should i just compost the patches of grass?

[Redbaron]

keep in mind i use a totally different method than traditional. But at your stage I would take all that grass you dug up and put it back. Then I would cover the whole thing in either cardboard or newspaper. Then I would cover the newspaper with the compost and grass clippings wait till spring. Next spring plant seedlings right through the whole pile.

Now keep in mind I would have never turned the soil to start with. I would have let the rotting roots from the dying grass form the channels that "lighten" the soil. So it won't be quite as good as if you hadn't broken the soil structure. But it still will be better than tilling methods IMHO.

I planted catawassa onion sets today. All I did was pull the mulch away and put the sets in. Completely by hand. The soil is so light, I can bury a seed or a set by hand without tools. It's seriously like packaged potting soil. Now this is in soil that started out hard as a rock. Literally so hard you couldn't dig a hole by jumping up and down on a shovel.

All done without compost, without manure, without anything. Just paper and grass clippings mulch. Now that spot was 4 years constantly mulched. So your results wont be quite as good the first year. But give it a couple years and you will throw away your garden tools and laugh (politely in your head) at your neighbors breaking their backs in the garden.

[TightenUp]

Originally Posted by Redbaron

keep in mind i use a totally different method than traditional. But at your stage I would take all that grass you dug up and put it back. Then I would cover the whole thing in either cardboard or newspaper. Then I would cover the newspaper with the compost and grass clippings wait till spring. Next spring plant seedlings right through the whole pile.

Now keep in mind I would have never turned the soil to start with. I would have let the rotting roots from the dying grass form the channels that "lighten" the soil. So it won't be quite as good as if you hadn't broken the soil structure. But it still will be better than tilling methods IMHO.

I planted catawassa onion sets today. All I did was pull the mulch away and put the sets in. Completely by hand. The soil is so light, I can bury a seed or a set by hand without tools. It's seriously like packaged potting soil. Now this is in soil that started out hard as a rock. Literally so hard you couldn't dig a hole by jumping up and down on a shovel.

All done without compost, without manure, without anything. Just paper and grass clippings mulch. Now that spot was 4 years constantly mulched. So your results wont be quite as good the first year. But give it a couple years and you will throw away your garden tools and laugh (politely in your head) at your neighbors breaking their backs in the garden.

i thought about doing that but wanted to see what the soil looked like and once i saw all the rocks i kept digging....sooo many rocks, and glass???? couldnt believe all the glass

anyways you kinda suggest a lasagna style. i've always felt the turning of the soil to be beneficial but i know lasagna gardening is gaining popularity.

i've read many of your posts and value each and every one of them. thanks for taking interest in my thread.

i'm considering leveling or evening out the bed and laying the grass face down, covering with newspaper/cardboard and then compost. the reason i am hesitant to doing this is i will still have heavy soil as my base

[TightenUp]

oh and i do have enough straw to create a straw layer if i go the lasagna route

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by TightenUp

oh and i do have enough straw to create a straw layer if i go the lasagna route

Well it is not the only solution. If you are willing to put in a whole lot of hard labor you could get some hardware mesh, build a wooden frame that covers a wheelbarrow dig all the soil out of your garden 2 feet deep and start sifting to remove glass and rocks and break up clods. As you sift add amendments like compost, grass clippings, greensand, slow lime if it needs it from a soil test, and even straw, chopped leaves, manure, fertilisers etc.... Then take the amended and sifted soil and wheelbarrow it back to the garden. By spring it will be decomposed enough to plant. But keep in mind even if you do all that, you also made a perfect bed for weeds. So you will still need to lay newspaper and cover with straw at planting time or else the weeds will try and take over.

One advantage is that the soil will warm quickly in the spring due to all the decomposing organic material and the fact it is bare right up until a day or two before planting. You can even cover the whole plot with clear plastic vis queen. That will reduce leaching and warm the soil even faster.

But to me, that is one heck of a lot of work. I have done it. Way back when I was 16 and 17. We called it an ammended double dug bed. It works fine if you have a strong back and are used to the really hard labor of a ditch digger. I managed it and considered it a workout for sports...... One of the best gardens I ever grew.

But I am 50 now. I would much prefer a no work method. Let the worms do the work.

PS Considering all the glass and rocks and that you already did 1/2 of it anyway, it wouldn't be a bad thing. Glass can be dangerous in a garden. So sifting it out may be the labor you hate to do but need to do anyway. But if you decide this route, you probably should go get a load of manure and do it right.

[dice]

The thicker you can mulch it, the better it will be by spring:
http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda%2...dments%202.pdf

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by dice

The thicker you can mulch it, the better it will be by spring:
http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda%2...dments%202.pdf

Excellent article!!!!!!!

The best quote from it: "When we tried to take a soil core, the corer bent! ......... A month later, we moved aside part of the mulch and
dug out a shovelful of rich, loamy soil. Had I not seen it for myself, I'm not sure I would have believed"- Dr Linda Chalker-Scott, Ph.D.

That's how I feel quite often when explaining to people mulching.

Number one, I know I sound crazy or like I am exaggerating, I think people don't really believe me even though they even want to believe.

Number two, I often even have to pinch myself to believe what I am seeing.

Just like I posted above. I know it is hard to believe but no exaggeration at all. Soil that I actually had to jump up and down on a shovel with my full over 200 pound self! Literally had to stop several times due to my feet hurting from jumping up and down on the shovel, finally giving up completely with a total of less than 20 square feet dug in over 3 days.....from that nightmare to soil now so good I don't even need a shovel. Literally the soil has the consistency of bagged potting mix. And all I did was newspaper and grass clippings mulch right over the sod.

No one believes it unless they see it, and even then they still wonder if they are not going crazy.

But the magic is in the worms I think.

It is really nice to see someone with a Phd confirming the miracle.

[ScottinAtlanta]

Scott, love your proselytizing this technique. You recommended it for my beds, which turned into compact hard slabs of clay this year. I decided to dig out the beds and replace most of the clayey soil with organic compost, choosing the hard work option which I thought was safer bet for next year, but I will try your newspaper and mulch approach with another part of the garden.

[TightenUp]

Originally Posted by ScottinAtlanta

Scott, love your proselytizing this technique. You recommended it for my beds, which turned into compact hard slabs of clay this year. I decided to dig out the beds and replace most of the clayey soil with organic compost, choosing the hard work option which I thought was safer bet for next year, but I will try your newspaper and mulch approach with another part of the garden.

while researching this method i came across a thread of yours from when you were building the lasagna style beds. it was only a few minutes later i saw your more recent thread about how it didnt work well for you.

it was enough to scare me off. i've been sifting soil all morning and plan to amend with rabbit manure and compost. i will however be mulching on top of that but i'm not sure what i will use to mulch

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by TightenUp

while researching this method i came across a thread of yours from when you were building the lasagna style beds. it was only a few minutes later i saw your more recent thread about how it didnt work well for you.

it was enough to scare me off. i've been sifting soil all morning and plan to amend with rabbit manure and compost. i will however be mulching on top of that but i'm not sure what i will use to mulch

Not sure what is available in Jersey after the disaster. But if you can find some alfalfa hay that was ruined by the storm you may hit the jackpot. You'll be able to help the farmer out and at the same time get really good quality mulch cheap.

If not the old stand by is mow the yard, grass leaves and all, and use that. But remember, don't forget the newspaper barrier.

[dice]

There should be lots of downed trees and branches in New Jersey.
Watch for a tree trimmer with a big shredder towed behind a truck
parked around the neighborhood somewhere. You may be able to
get them to dump a load of shredded tree debris in your driveway
for free (saves gas for the tree trimmer).

That would make a nice, thick mulch on top of newspaper or
cardboard. You can rake it off to the side before planting and
put it back on top after the soil warms up (instead of turning it
under, thus avoiding nitrogen draw down from the high-carbon
wood chips).

edit:
Need to avoid black walnut, and maybe other walnut, butternut,
and ash trees, too (juglone). Shredded conifer, maple, oak, etc
are fine for this.