Black plastic under toms , or red

[chastom]

Any thoughts on putting black plastic under toms ,last year i used clear ,but the costal bermuda would raise the plastic up .
I have also heard the red plastic is better ,but i am unsure about the grass growing under it ,and is it worth the cost? black verses red

thanks
chas

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by chastom

Any thoughts on putting black plastic under toms ,last year i used clear ,but the costal bermuda would raise the plastic up .
I have also heard the red plastic is better ,but i am unsure about the grass growing under it ,and is it worth the cost? black verses red

thanks
chas

Paper and mulch. That is my opinion. BUT I will be the first to admit other people have other opinions.

[Lorri D]

I have used both in my zone. I can say that with the red, you want it pretty weed free, it doesn't hinder weeds at all. The red does help warm the soil, keeps moisture in and you don't have to mulch over it when the temps get really high. I asked a master gardener about the "red" color and if it works and he said it only works in the northern states and has no effect on the rest of the U.S.

With the black, you will most likely kill everything below and you will lock in some moisture, but you do run the risk of cooking your tomatoes in really high temps if you don't mulch over the top of it with something. Lorri D

[Hillbillygardner]

I agree with newspaper and straw. I would think in Texas the black would also scald the toms, I know it did my mom's in College Station and mine did in the Missouri Ozarks. Also with the straw and newspaper its a good soil amendment to till back under the next year.

[carolyn137]

When Clemson U introduced the red plastic many years ago at the NE Vegetable Conference at Sturbridge , MA, I was there.

It was introduced NOT as a typical mulch, rather, b'c the data indicated increased production of up to 20%. As the years have passed that number has come way down.


And there are still those sites quoting the 20% increase who sell to home gardeners.

It was introduced for commercial growers in terms of increased production, not for the home growers. Take a plant with maybe 20 larger sized tomatoes on it,and then add 4 more (20% increase), then factor in the high cost of that red plastic.

Nope, I wouldn't suggest red or black or any of the other colored plastics, and there are several of the latter.

Carolyn

[bwaynef]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

When Clemson U introduced the red plastic many years ago at the NE Vegetable Conference at Sturbridge , MA, I was there.

I work across the parking lot from the Clemson Univ. greenhouses. I had no idea the red plastic mulch came from here. Regardless, the horticulture department doesn't seem to use red plastic (or anything red) in the greenhouses where they grow their tomatoes for the spring plant sale.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by bwaynef

I work across the parking lot from the Clemson Univ. greenhouses. I had no idea the red plastic mulch came from here. Regardless, the horticulture department doesn't seem to use red plastic (or anything red) in the greenhouses where they grow their tomatoes for the spring plant sale.

It wouldn't be used in a greenhouse where plants are close together being grown for plant sales b'c there has to be about two ft of red showing on either side of a plant in the field so that there's plenty of room for reflection of sun off the red, which is supposed to help in increasing production.

Which is why it's usually commercial growers who grow determinate varieties consider it and even with a 10% increase in production that can be significant for commercial growing since they have hundreds of acres and mechanical harvesting is often done.

Carolyn

[paulgrow]

I tried the red mulch along with black and straw a few years ago,
I placed it on about a dozen plants.
Saw virtually no difference in production between the 3.

I use straw and grass clippings now.

[TightenUp]

last season i used the black weed barrier which i covered with pine needles after the soil warmed up. i got good results and will try again this coming season.

at another property i am using straw for the second year in a row. i liked the straw so am giving it another shot

at my 3rd location i plan to try the newspaper covered with partially composted leaves, grass and rabbit manure(mostly leaves and grass)

[chastom]

I understand the problems with plastic ,but i must admit my costal bermuda, lifts up plastic will laugh at mulch and just grow through it .

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by chastom

I understand the problems with plastic ,but i must admit my costal bermuda, lifts up plastic will laugh at mulch and just grow through it .

Then use cardboard instead of paper. I absolutely guarantee if you pile enough on it even coastal Bermuda cant grow through in one season. And before it tries again next season, pile on even more paper and mulch. By the time you do that 3 or 4 years your soil will be so good that your tomatoes wont even care if a stray blade of grass makes it through.

Don't be skimpy. PILE it on thick!

I remember last year I planted an area over virgin sod covered with packing boxes my new TVs came in and grass clippings over that. After 2 months I saw a bit of green grass coming through. So I pulled away the mulch to see what happened. Apparently a worm or beetle had eaten a small hole through the cardboard. A grass runner had traveled at least 2 feet under the mulch, found that hole, and then burrowed up through the grass clippings to finally reach sunlight! Tough little buggar!!!! All I did was pull the runner, cover the hole which was now much bigger, since I tore it to see what was going on, with a few layers of newspaper. Then I covered that with an even bigger pile of mulch. That ended that! Strange as it may seem, the bigger holes made by transplanting the cabbages and broccoli I planted there had nearly nothing try to grow through there because the leaves of my brassicas shaded it all out.

If any weed grass can seriously defeat this technique with more than a couple stragglers that are VERY easily pulled or just covered up again, I want to see it. Maybe giant bamboo could make it through, but nothing else I know of.

Originally Posted by chastom

I understand the problems with plastic ,but i must admit my costal bermuda, lifts up plastic will laugh at mulch and just grow through it .

I would never put a non permeable membrane over the roots of my garden plants. I tried it on a few plants one year and while it did control the grass and weeds from germinating or growing, it also caused the soil under it to become moldy and sour. I did use a permeable product called "Weed Block" a few times with good results. I actually used a double layer of the fabric with some mulch over it to prevent the sun from heating the soil under the fabric. I normally would pull the fabric up in the fall to work the soil and I didn't like the varieties of insects that I typically would find trying to over winter under the fabric. I stopped using it as well. In my mind either paper or cardboard (cardboard preferred because it will stop the growth of Bermuda grass for a year or two) with some mulch placed over the paper or cardboard. You can usually get a good supply of cardboard at your local grocery store in the form of empty boxes.

Ted

[Boutique Tomatoes]

The St. Augustine grass I had in FL would cover up the sidewalk if I didn't edge for two weeks. I had to put concrete blocks around beds there so I could weed whack it into submission without hitting my garden plants.

If the clear didn't cook your plants last year I might do a limited trial of black plastic mulch. The red won't stop the grass. Rolls of the black are also a lot less expensive. I'd split a big contractor grade black garbage bag for enough to go under a couple of plants just to see what happens first.

Originally Posted by marktutt

The St. Augustine grass I had in FL would cover up the sidewalk if I didn't edge for two weeks. I had to put concrete blocks around beds there so I could weed whack it into submission without hitting my garden plants.

If the clear didn't cook your plants last year I might do a limited trial of black plastic mulch. The red won't stop the grass. Rolls of the black are also a lot less expensive. I'd split a big contractor grade black garbage bag for enough to go under a couple of plants just to see what happens first.

I had a beautiful St. Augustine lawn in Louisiana. The only problem I had was an occasional spot of wild Bermuda grass would sprout and quickly choke the St. Augustine out. I had to fight the Bermuda constantly to maintain the St. Augustine.

Ted

[tomatoguy]

It is too hot for black plastic or black landscape fabric in Tennessee, so I don't think I would try it in Texas. I just use lots of wheat straw.