Rutgers offering Ramapo, Moreton and KC-146 seeds

[Douglas_OW]

I received this email yesterday and thought that I would repost it here for those who might be interested.

Jim

Gardeners,

It’s that time of year that home gardeners get a jump on the season by selecting seeds to start indoors. You may have noticed that Ramapo tomato was in short supply for 2012. Our new batch of seeds didn’t come through in time for the 2012 growing season, but we are well stocked for 2013.
In addition to old time favorites Ramapo and Moreton tomato seeds, this year we are adding another old-time variety, KC-146. You’ve probably never heard of this tomato, because it was a processing variety developed by Campbell’s Soup Company released in 1956. It turns out that many of the delicious Jersey Tomatoes sold on the fresh market were also processing varieties that farmers were growing for local canning companies like Campbell’s Soup. Even though it is a processing variety, it has incredible flavor as a fresh tomato. This variety was grown by Campbell's growers in a number of states besides New Jersey, so, like Ramapo and Moreton tomatoes, we expect it to perform well in various regions. Since we are piloting KC-146 this year, we will request gardener feedback at the end of the season.
You can find the order form for Ramapo, Moreton and KC-146 seeds on our website, with additional information on these varieties and growing tomatoes in the home garden at: http://njfarmfresh.rutgers.edu/JerseyTomato.html
Rediscover the Jersey Tomato
Rutgers New Jersey Agricultural Experiment Station

[carolyn137]

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/l...0.html?12#post

In the thread above the parents of Ramapo F1 are given and the KC one Rutgers is now offering could well be one of the Ramapo parents as I see it, or very similar, just with a number line given.

You decide.

Carolyn, who doesn't want to confess how long it took her to find this link in her faves which numbers in the thousands, but it was happy click trip with remembrances of old.

[Douglas_OW]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/l...0.html?12#post

In the thread above the parents of Ramapo F1 are given and the KC one Rutgers is now offering could well be one of the Ramapo parents as I see it, or very similar, just with a number line given.

You decide.

Carolyn, who doesn't want to confess how long it took her to find this link in her faves which numbers in the thousands, but it was happy click trip with remembrances of old.

One of the Ramapo parents has been cited as KCA:

http://www.dig-itmag.com/features/li.../337_0_6_10_M/

But, according to people at the source (a few years ago),

"The parent lines of Ramapo are ordinary tomatoes which
are not exceptional in any way, and seed is not available. It is the F1
hybrid seed of their combination which has the characteristics people prize."

http://tomatoville.com/showpost.php?...0&postcount=13

So, I would suspect that the new Rutgers KC-146 offering is not a Ramapo parent, but likely a relative.

Jim

[nnjjohn]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/l...0.html?12#post

In the thread above the parents of Ramapo F1 are given and the KC one Rutgers is now offering could well be one of the Ramapo parents as I see it, or very similar, just with a number line given.

You decide.

Carolyn, who doesn't want to confess how long it took her to find this link in her faves which numbers in the thousands, but it was happy click trip with remembrances of old.

After seeing those pics,, my ramapo and rutgers looked like those .. Many were smaller but I did get a good bunch in that size and texture.. I have to try a few plants again this year.. Thanks for the link carolyn

[mdvpc]

I really have wanted to grow Moreton and Ramapo, but they have never done well in my desert Southwest garden. Maybe the move to San Antonio will give me a climate that is good for these. And now Jim, you have added another one I want to grow! Thanks for the info and link.

[barkeater]

Originally Posted by Douglas_OW

In addition to old time favorites Ramapo and Moreton tomato seeds, this year we are adding another old-time variety, KC-146. You’ve probably never heard of this tomato, because it was a processing variety developed by Campbell’s Soup Company released in 1956.

KC-146 seeds

(also known as Campbell’s 146) was developed by Campbell’s

Soup Company as a processing tomato and released in 1956. This variety was wilt and
crack-resistant and better flavored than other processing types. It was eventually

re-placed with newer varieties with a wider range of disease resistance. Campbell’s

maintained the KC-146 stock as a flavor standard.

I believe there are other sources like Sandhill Preservation for Campbells 146 if you don't want to order from Rutgers. By 1970, the predominate Campbells variety grown by fresh market farmers and gardeners in NJ was Campbells 1327, which is what I grew for early tomatoes. It is still a great tomato, and very solid.

[carolyn137]

Posted by naplesgardener: I assume the real parentage of Ramapo is secret...
Posted by hoosiercherokee: Besides, what are the two parents of Ramapo? What are your bets both of them are vintage commercial varieties?
I got my Ramapo seeds from the son-in-law of Dr. Bernard Pollack, who developed the the variety at Rutgers. He's probably the anonymous "retired plant genetecist" mentioned in the Times article. Here's Bernie's reply to my question about the parents of the Ramapo:
"...No secret. Ramapo is the result of a cross of KCA x Abbie. KCA is a breeding line I got from a plant breeder working for the Campbell Soup Co. in NJ and Abbie (named after my daughter) from a breeding line I received from a plant breeder friend in North Dakota. This line was still segregating so I made selections from it and purified the type I was interested in. Takes about 7 years of inbreeding..."
So, there it is.

#######

The above from what I linked to above.

Jim, in my post above I said possibly KCA-146 was the same or SIMILAR to the one Campbell variety used as a parent, and if you read the above that I cut and pasted you'll see the one Campbell parent was not given a number, and as Barkeater has just pointed out, there are lots of Campbell releases with different numbers and all of them round red processing ones.

As you can also see from what I linked to above, the parents of Ramapo F1 were so similar that it only took me to the F3 generation to be stable, as Barkeater also commented about in that GW thread from seeds I sent him. I was growing Ramapo F1 for comparison sake when making selections.

As I recall there's a nice thread in the Legacy Forum about Campbell and Heinz releases.

Carolyn

[Douglas_OW]

Yes, I understand. I guess that I read too much into the comment from Jack Rabin at Rutgers when he said that the parents were “not exceptional in any way”. Out of context, I would interpret that as meaning that the parents were average, or below, varieties. More likely, as you both have pointed out, it meant that they are not much different than the many other Campbell varieties.
Kind of like the people that finish the Boston Marathon in places 50 thru 500; just average folks.
Thanks for the insight.

Jim

[Alfredo]

So glad I found this thread/post, thanks for posting this info/link Douglas_OW...

Going to order some of those seeds to try out, just wish Rutgers would have it set up to order the seeds directly online, I would think its more efficient (not to mention a slightly greener way of purchasing the seeds), I could be wrong... (I see Harris Seeds sells the Moreton seeds, and I do remember seeing both the Rutgers and Ramapo tomato plants being sold as transplants in the better local garden nurseries/farms nearby, so those won't be a problem in finding if I want to just grow out one plant to try out of each).
I'm just used to ordering seeds with a click of a few buttons....wa waa Guess I'm spoiled in that respect...I'm going to just have to write a check up and fill out that form to get those KC-146 seeds. Might as well, it'll help support the good work being done over at Rutgers.

Thanks again,
Alfredo

[Urbanfarmer]

I can only speak from my experience growing Ramapo the first year they brought it back.....I think 2008. It sorely disappointed me: large seed cavities, and a ho-hum flavor. Meager yield as well. I grew it in the same crop with a lot of other heirlooms and I had a tremendous year with most. Not Ramapo.

I bought it direct from Rutgers.

[nnjjohn]

Originally Posted by Douglas_OW

I received this email yesterday and thought that I would repost it here for those who might be interested.

Jim

Gardeners,

It’s that time of year that home gardeners get a jump on the season by selecting seeds to start indoors. You may have noticed that Ramapo tomato was in short supply for 2012. Our new batch of seeds didn’t come through in time for the 2012 growing season, but we are well stocked for 2013.
In addition to old time favorites Ramapo and Moreton tomato seeds, this year we are adding another old-time variety, KC-146. You’ve probably never heard of this tomato, because it was a processing variety developed by Campbell’s Soup Company released in 1956. It turns out that many of the delicious Jersey Tomatoes sold on the fresh market were also processing varieties that farmers were growing for local canning companies like Campbell’s Soup. Even though it is a processing variety, it has incredible flavor as a fresh tomato. This variety was grown by Campbell's growers in a number of states besides New Jersey, so, like Ramapo and Moreton tomatoes, we expect it to perform well in various regions. Since we are piloting KC-146 this year, we will request gardener feedback at the end of the season.
You can find the order form for Ramapo, Moreton and KC-146 seeds on our website, with additional information on these varieties and growing tomatoes in the home garden at: http://njfarmfresh.rutgers.edu/JerseyTomato.html
Rediscover the Jersey Tomato
Rutgers New Jersey Agricultural Experiment Station

I can say from my experience, the ramapo is a bigger and better tasting slicer over the rutgers which seem to taste mushy compared to the ramapo, jmho.. and the ram plants are thicker broader plant. if i decide on buying some,, I'll go with the ramapo plants.

[Gardadore]

I am kind of bumping this thread but am curious to know what others have experienced with these tomatoes in the meantime. Last week I attended the Rutgers Tomato Tasting for the first time and bought the Ramapo and KC 146. I was looking for reactions to these varieties and came across this thread. I think I should have bought the Moreton as well but space is a consideration for me. The only other hybrids I have grown constantly is Sun Sugar and Momotaro. I have grown Rutgers in the past but never been so impressed that I had to keep growing it. I grow otherwise only open pollinated. The best tasting tomatoes at this tasting for me was Solar Flare, a variety that failed for me this year. I also tasted the Ramapo and liked it so will give it a try in 2016.

[ramapojoe]

Been growing Ramapoes since they became available a decade ago or more again. Also grow Rutgers [cambell soup] tomatoes once in a while. The Rutgers are more uniform and tennis ball size but unlike other posts my ramapoes are the size from a baseball to a softball. I grow them every year and are by far my favorite tomato. Massive yields.

[nathan125]

Originally Posted by ramapojoe

Been growing Ramapoes since they became available a decade ago or more again. Also grow Rutgers [cambell soup] tomatoes once in a while. The Rutgers are more uniform and tennis ball size but unlike other posts my ramapoes are the size from a baseball to a softball. I grow them every year and are by far my favorite tomato. Massive yields.

Share some seed with a fellow brethren ?

[ramapojoe]

I only get them as seedlings from a Rutgers Based nursery. there are only a few other nursery's that sell them. not sure why they aren't more widespread. They are hybrids so I don't bother saving the seeds from my tomatoes.