Bad Luck with Bagging Blossoms

Woodenzoo · September 2, 2006

This was my first year at growing OP tomatoes and since I was growing all kinds of tomatoes close together, I tried bagging the blossoms.
Quite often, after a few days to a week, it seemed more like I had bagged more new foliage growth than any blossoms and/or the blossoms I had bagged died and dropped off. lol I even found a worm inside one bag! Obviously, I'm doing something wrong!
I did manage to get about 5 (out of about 25) bagged successfully, but would like to improve this skill for better success next year. I'd like to have seeds from all that I've grown this year for trades for 'new to me varieties' next year and for my own personal use in the coming years.
Any suggestions?
Thanks!
Cathy

travis · September 2, 2006

Cathy,

I'd really like to see a show of hands as to how many forum members actually bag blossoms. I'm not tryin' to start a controversy, but it seems so tedious just to avoid 5 - 10% cross pollination ... doncha think?

I mean, I admire your conscientious effort. And I'm sure others really have more confidence in someone's seeds from bagged blossoms. But I just wonder how many people who are involved in distributing OP tomato seeds ... whether SSE, here, GW, other forums or wherever ... are distributing from 100% bagged blossoms.

PV

Woodenzoo · September 2, 2006

That's true PV. I guess I've read too much about cross pollination with currant tomatoes and I've read the same about potato leaf tomatoes... and since I'm growing all of them so close together, I've been afraid to save seed from unbagged fruits.
I'd also like to see how many other forum members bag blossoms and see if anyone would want to trade seeds with me knowing the facts!
:wink:
Thanks for your thoughts! I'll start to save seeds from some of the others and see what happens!
Cathy

bugsy · September 2, 2006

I think people should bag blossoms. It's cheap insurance and it's so easy if you have a small plot as many people do. Just bag and mark the branch with a bright ribbon. Even the bags at the craft store, comparatively pricey at $10 for 9 large bags is still a bargain because you can wash and reuse them. You just slip them over the branch and pull the ribbons tight. Job done. My friend does cut off the extra leaves and such and i think that is helpful but not necessary.

It's pretty disappointing if you want to grow something from someone else's seed and it turns out to be (unintentionally) crossed, especially if you have a small plot where there's no room for a loser. I don't trade with people who do not bag their blossoms. It's either bagged or isolated (and only from someone who I trust actually does isolate) or commercial seed for me.

--oh and in response to the question, any tomato seeds that I've grown for trade, i absolutely bag 100%. I understand the risk is low that there will be a cross but seeing as I have gotten crosses from others, apparently the chance is not that remote and like I said, it's cheap insurance.

Polar_Lace · September 2, 2006

Tomatoes Bagged '06

Sungold - 1 trussful. I'm saving some this year.
Jeff Davis - 3 blossoms
Black Cherry 4 blossoms
Winterkeeper - 1 blossom
Purple Calabash - 2 blossoms

bcday · September 3, 2006

100% of the seed I send out is from bagged blossoms.

After the blossoms open, I give them a few shakes now and then, since the bag prevents visiting insects from doing that. Also in hot weather, the temperature inside the bag may be warm enough to cause blossom drop. I try to bag the very first blossoms of the season, before the weather gets too warm. That also gives me time to try again before the season is over, if there is no fruit set on the first try. But I have quite a few plants right now that had every single one of their blossoms bagged, and their yield is no worse than Champion's, a hybrid that I didn't bother bagging.

I once sent someone seeds from blossoms that were not bagged, and did a test germination from the same batch myself, and the percentage of crossed seeds was much higher than 5-10%. I also receive seeds in trade that are not from bagged blossoms and while many of them are 100% true, sometimes more than 50% of a batch will be crossed. On the plus side, sometimes the crosses are as interesting as the variety I was expecting. 8)

bugsy · September 3, 2006

bcday's technique is exactly what I do too, though I like to flick the bag instead of shake and I also do the early blossoms for the exact same reasons. yeah, i've had my share of fried blossoms in the bag during high summer.

Suze · September 3, 2006

Cathy, if you're going to bag blossoms, yes, do it early and often as in bagging multiple trusses on each plant. And be sure to occasionally shake or tap the bags as others have pointed out; that really does help. To prevent that gap between the stem and bag where insects can still possibly get in (like a worm or a small bee), I take a cotton ball and wrap it around the stem where the bag is going to be cinched.

Having said all that, I personally don't plan on bagging blossoms much (if at all) in the future. I lose a whole lot of fruit every time I do it. The temps simply get too hot too early in the season here in Texas -- I've found that there is no 'early enough' for me in terms of preventing major blossom drop when I bag.

Suze

Spatzbear · September 4, 2006

I bag my flower buds, too. Only seeds from bagged fruit make it into my seed packets.

Unfortunately, I have encountered the same problem where blossom drop is concerned. I will try to shake/stir the bagged flowers this year.

As I am growing my plants pretty close together and there is always lots of insect activity around here, I feel I would get quite a bit of cross-pollination without bags.

cottonpicker · September 4, 2006

spatzbear.... That's a fine specimen of tomato shown in your avatar. Did you grow it? Which Variety???
LD

September 2, 2006	#1
Woodenzoo Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ohio z6 Posts: 141	Bad Luck with Bagging Blossoms This was my first year at growing OP tomatoes and since I was growing all kinds of tomatoes close together, I tried bagging the blossoms. Quite often, after a few days to a week, it seemed more like I had bagged more new foliage growth than any blossoms and/or the blossoms I had bagged died and dropped off. lol I even found a worm inside one bag! Obviously, I'm doing something wrong! I did manage to get about 5 (out of about 25) bagged successfully, but would like to improve this skill for better success next year. I'd like to have seeds from all that I've grown this year for trades for 'new to me varieties' next year and for my own personal use in the coming years. Any suggestions? Thanks! Cathy

September 2, 2006	#5
Polar_Lace Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Z8b, Texas Posts: 657	Tomatoes Bagged '06 Sungold - 1 trussful. I'm saving some this year. Jeff Davis - 3 blossoms Black Cherry 4 blossoms Winterkeeper - 1 blossom Purple Calabash - 2 blossoms __________________ It's not how many seeds you sow. Nor how many plants you transplant. It's about how many of them can survive your treatment of them.

September 4, 2006	#10
cottonpicker Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: SE PA..near Valley Forge Posts: 839	spatzbear.... That's a fine specimen of tomato shown in your avatar. Did you grow it? Which Variety??? LD __________________ "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause". Victor Hugo

September 2, 2006	#2
travis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 2,984	Cathy, I'd really like to see a show of hands as to how many forum members actually bag blossoms. I'm not tryin' to start a controversy, but it seems so tedious just to avoid 5 - 10% cross pollination ... doncha think? I mean, I admire your conscientious effort. And I'm sure others really have more confidence in someone's seeds from bagged blossoms. But I just wonder how many people who are involved in distributing OP tomato seeds ... whether SSE, here, GW, other forums or wherever ... are distributing from 100% bagged blossoms. PV

September 2, 2006	#4
bugsy Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2006 Location: Zone 10b Posts: 67	I think people should bag blossoms. It's cheap insurance and it's so easy if you have a small plot as many people do. Just bag and mark the branch with a bright ribbon. Even the bags at the craft store, comparatively pricey at $10 for 9 large bags is still a bargain because you can wash and reuse them. You just slip them over the branch and pull the ribbons tight. Job done. My friend does cut off the extra leaves and such and i think that is helpful but not necessary. It's pretty disappointing if you want to grow something from someone else's seed and it turns out to be (unintentionally) crossed, especially if you have a small plot where there's no room for a loser. I don't trade with people who do not bag their blossoms. It's either bagged or isolated (and only from someone who I trust actually does isolate) or commercial seed for me. --oh and in response to the question, any tomato seeds that I've grown for trade, i absolutely bag 100%. I understand the risk is low that there will be a cross but seeing as I have gotten crosses from others, apparently the chance is not that remote and like I said, it's cheap insurance.

September 3, 2006	#6
bcday Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NY z5 Posts: 1,205	100% of the seed I send out is from bagged blossoms. After the blossoms open, I give them a few shakes now and then, since the bag prevents visiting insects from doing that. Also in hot weather, the temperature inside the bag may be warm enough to cause blossom drop. I try to bag the very first blossoms of the season, before the weather gets too warm. That also gives me time to try again before the season is over, if there is no fruit set on the first try. But I have quite a few plants right now that had every single one of their blossoms bagged, and their yield is no worse than Champion's, a hybrid that I didn't bother bagging. I once sent someone seeds from blossoms that were not bagged, and did a test germination from the same batch myself, and the percentage of crossed seeds was much higher than 5-10%. I also receive seeds in trade that are not from bagged blossoms and while many of them are 100% true, sometimes more than 50% of a batch will be crossed. On the plus side, sometimes the crosses are as interesting as the variety I was expecting. 8)

September 3, 2006	#8
Suze Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 3,027	Cathy, if you're going to bag blossoms, yes, do it early and often as in bagging multiple trusses on each plant. And be sure to occasionally shake or tap the bags as others have pointed out; that really does help. To prevent that gap between the stem and bag where insects can still possibly get in (like a worm or a small bee), I take a cotton ball and wrap it around the stem where the bag is going to be cinched. Having said all that, I personally don't plan on bagging blossoms much (if at all) in the future. I lose a whole lot of fruit every time I do it. The temps simply get too hot too early in the season here in Texas -- I've found that there is no 'early enough' for me in terms of preventing major blossom drop when I bag. Suze

September 4, 2006	#9
Spatzbear Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Adelaide Hills, Australia Posts: 349	I bag my flower buds, too. Only seeds from bagged fruit make it into my seed packets. Unfortunately, I have encountered the same problem where blossom drop is concerned. I will try to shake/stir the bagged flowers this year. As I am growing my plants pretty close together and there is always lots of insect activity around here, I feel I would get quite a bit of cross-pollination without bags.