PL Black Krim

Mantis · September 2, 2006

I have been growing seedlings to sell at local markets and one of them is Black Krim. I sowed probably 100 plus seeds in a deep flat and they all came up. I just noticed I have two seedlings in amongst them that are PL. Has anyone seen PL BK's before.
Of course I am going to grow them out :wink:

spudleafwillie · September 3, 2006

Mantis,
I have seen PL variants of Black Krim before.
I grew out 2 different strains of PL variants of Black Krim this year called Black Potato Leaf (from Sweden) and Flathead Monster (from Minnesota, USA). Both have the typical beefsteak fruit which is dark bronze in color. From whom and where did you get your RL seed from??

Flathead Monster has the largest fruit, 12-18 oz versus 6-8 oz fruits from Black Potato Leaf. I dont know what the PL parent in each strain that created the cross from the typical RL version was, but the leaf shape and fruit size differ slightly in each. I took pics of both (fruit and leaf form) but won't be able to post them until October when I get my new computer.

You should re-name your PL variant some other name than Black Krim PL to avoid confusing it with the normal RL one. Your choice mate since you found it!! Just be sure to note that it is a PL variant of Black Krim found among RL plants when you send out seed.

I'll PM you my snailmail info so you can send me some PL seeds for my PL collection from your growout down under if thats OK. I can send seed of both Flathead Monster and Black Potato Leaf if you want to compare all 3 strains.

Best regards,
Bill Malin (aka spudleaf willie)

Mantis · September 3, 2006

Thanks for the info Bill. Its funny how just two seeds in over a hundred came out PL. The seed was saved from my own tomato I grew from a seedling bought at a garden show here two years ago. I remember the tray of little seedlings I got it from, and none of them were PL.
I didn't grow BK last year as I was trying some other blacks. I wasn't going to grow it this year either but now I sure will. I love a mystery. Many of which I have in my patch this year.
I'll be sure to send you some seeds if they grow out to be anything worthwhile. Or do you want seeds anyway?

spudleafwillie · September 3, 2006

Mantis,
The same thing happened to my friend in Minnesota when a PL plant of BK popped up in about 15 RL plants. She named it Flathead Monster after the Flathead River in Montana where she grew up. Don't know any history of the Black Potato Leaf from Sweden.

Black Krim RL must have a mixed genetic parentage way back and these PL variants are a genetic throwback from many generations ago. I had a similar throwback happen in the F16 generation of another PL I grow called Roughwood Golden Plum, a stable cross at F10 of Yellow Brandywine PL X San Marinzo RL. Through the F15 all fruits were yellow plum shaped fruit and PL, then in the F16 1 out of 6 plants grown reverted back to the San Marinzo fruit phenotype (red plum fruit w/pointed end) but was PL.

If I remember correctly, didn't Grub's Mystery Green also evolve from Black Krim as David got both red and green fruits from GMG and both RL and PL plants?

And the BK mystery genetics continues. Stay tuned for the next chapter!!!
Regards,
Bill

Mantis · September 3, 2006

I think Grubs mystery green came from a packet of Paul Robesons but not sure. Other greens have evolved from black types haven't they?

spudleafwillie · September 3, 2006

"Other greens have evolved from black types haven't they?"

Mantis, I don't know for sure. Keith would be the person to ask. Keith, chime in with your info. Thanks.

Regards,
Bill

Grub · September 3, 2006

You're right Mantis. Memory isn't so bad after all. The mystery green came from a pack of Paul Robeson, seeds of which I am trying again this year, and Cherokee Green is one other that springs to mind.

Have a good one.

**carolyn137** · September 4, 2006

and Cherokee Green is one other that springs to mind.

And Cherokee Green came from Cherokke Chocolate, a skin epidermis spontaneous mutant of Cherokee Purple.

Craig had sent CC to Darrell Merrell in OK and when Darrell sent back fresh seeds of CC Craig grew out CG, which is still my favorite green when ripe, to date.

No Grub, I haven't yet grown out yours, but will do if I can, as in I don't know what's happening next Spring re getting the right hip done and plants from Martha b'c she's already offered.

September 2, 2006	#1
Mantis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Oz Posts: 1,241	PL Black Krim I have been growing seedlings to sell at local markets and one of them is Black Krim. I sowed probably 100 plus seeds in a deep flat and they all came up. I just noticed I have two seedlings in amongst them that are PL. Has anyone seen PL BK's before. Of course I am going to grow them out :wink:

September 3, 2006	#2
spudleafwillie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Zone 7b sw New Mexico,. Posts: 197	PL Black Krim Mantis, I have seen PL variants of Black Krim before. I grew out 2 different strains of PL variants of Black Krim this year called Black Potato Leaf (from Sweden) and Flathead Monster (from Minnesota, USA). Both have the typical beefsteak fruit which is dark bronze in color. From whom and where did you get your RL seed from?? Flathead Monster has the largest fruit, 12-18 oz versus 6-8 oz fruits from Black Potato Leaf. I dont know what the PL parent in each strain that created the cross from the typical RL version was, but the leaf shape and fruit size differ slightly in each. I took pics of both (fruit and leaf form) but won't be able to post them until October when I get my new computer. You should re-name your PL variant some other name than Black Krim PL to avoid confusing it with the normal RL one. Your choice mate since you found it!! Just be sure to note that it is a PL variant of Black Krim found among RL plants when you send out seed. I'll PM you my snailmail info so you can send me some PL seeds for my PL collection from your growout down under if thats OK. I can send seed of both Flathead Monster and Black Potato Leaf if you want to compare all 3 strains. Best regards, Bill Malin (aka spudleaf willie)

September 3, 2006	#4
spudleafwillie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Zone 7b sw New Mexico,. Posts: 197	Re: PL Black Krim Mantis, The same thing happened to my friend in Minnesota when a PL plant of BK popped up in about 15 RL plants. She named it Flathead Monster after the Flathead River in Montana where she grew up. Don't know any history of the Black Potato Leaf from Sweden. Black Krim RL must have a mixed genetic parentage way back and these PL variants are a genetic throwback from many generations ago. I had a similar throwback happen in the F16 generation of another PL I grow called Roughwood Golden Plum, a stable cross at F10 of Yellow Brandywine PL X San Marinzo RL. Through the F15 all fruits were yellow plum shaped fruit and PL, then in the F16 1 out of 6 plants grown reverted back to the San Marinzo fruit phenotype (red plum fruit w/pointed end) but was PL. If I remember correctly, didn't Grub's Mystery Green also evolve from Black Krim as David got both red and green fruits from GMG and both RL and PL plants? And the BK mystery genetics continues. Stay tuned for the next chapter!!! Regards, Bill

September 3, 2006	#6
spudleafwillie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Zone 7b sw New Mexico,. Posts: 197	Greens evolving from blacks "Other greens have evolved from black types haven't they?" Mantis, I don't know for sure. Keith would be the person to ask. Keith, chime in with your info. Thanks. Regards, Bill

September 3, 2006	#7
Grub Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 2,722	Paul Robeson gave GMG. You're right Mantis. Memory isn't so bad after all. The mystery green came from a pack of Paul Robeson, seeds of which I am trying again this year, and Cherokee Green is one other that springs to mind. Have a good one.

September 4, 2006	#8
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	and Cherokee Green is one other that springs to mind. And Cherokee Green came from Cherokke Chocolate, a skin epidermis spontaneous mutant of Cherokee Purple. Craig had sent CC to Darrell Merrell in OK and when Darrell sent back fresh seeds of CC Craig grew out CG, which is still my favorite green when ripe, to date. No Grub, I haven't yet grown out yours, but will do if I can, as in I don't know what's happening next Spring re getting the right hip done and plants from Martha b'c she's already offered. __________________ Carolyn