Is it a waiste to use

nnjjohn · March 30, 2013

Miracle-gro potting mix instead of the cheaper garden soil if you already have plenty of garden soil? My soil gets hard in the summer and so thinking either peat moss or instead, for almost the same price 64oz bags of potting mix. this bed is about 20 x 4 feet thinking buying two bags at 14 dollars a bag.. for the garden or you think one big bag of peat and just use fertilizer? tia, john

nnjjohn · March 30, 2013

i always mispell waste .. lol btw my beer belly waiste is 36 ..wish to get back to 33 or 34 lol

Al@NC · March 30, 2013

Are you replacing your mix this year or is it a new bed?

nnjjohn · March 30, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al@NC

Are you replacing your mix this year or is it a new bed?

It was a front partial flower bed.. it needs tilling,, never put much in but the few tomato plants I did grow do very well, so I transplanted the few tulip bulbs and whatever small shrubs and have the whole bed to work with.. not really in need of much compost.. lots of coffee grinds in this bed and they must be the main reason why tomato plants do so well.. aside the fact a lot more sun than my backyard beds, This bed is a good producer.

Cole_Robbie · March 30, 2013

Your soil gets like that because it needs organic matter. Peat will work, but so will many other things. Peat is acidic, and you have to be careful about not giving yourself ph problems. Buffering it with limestone can balance the acidity, but I find it easier to just buy a peat-based pro mix for $3.50 per cubic foot. Compost of any kind will increase your organic matter, and you can also use perlite for aeration as well. If you buy perlite, get it in a big bag, 3 cubic feet or so, and it's much cheaper. Another product that is useful for moisture retention is vermiculite; you can often find it with the insulation products where building products are sold.

nnjjohn · March 30, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

Your soil gets like that because it needs organic matter. Peat will work, but so will many other things. Peat is acidic, and you have to be careful about not giving yourself ph problems. Buffering it with limestone can balance the acidity, but I find it easier to just buy a peat-based pro mix for $3.50 per cubic foot. Compost of any kind will increase your organic matter, and you can also use perlite for aeration as well. If you buy perlite, get it in a big bag, 3 cubic feet or so, and it's much cheaper. Another product that is useful for moisture retention is vermiculite; you can often find it with the insulation products where building products are sold.

So tilling peat is okay if I use some garden pulverized lime? what about the first option using a top layer of inexpensive potting mix, after all it is mixed?

TightenUp · March 31, 2013

potting mix is usually peat based.

http://www.gardenguides.com/99097-mi...gredients.html

i found this site using google. i'm assuming its accurate but you can always check the bag.

one tip for using peat moss. be sure to wet the peat moss thoroughly. i've read where people dug up part of their garden bed a year after adding peat and it was still bone dry.

also as mentioned the peat will lower the ph. if your tomatoes did well last season you might not want to lower the ph unless you get your soil tested.

i cheaply bought some rabbit manure from a guy in passaic and that can be added to your garden without even being composted. another option which i am trying for the first time this season is using alfalfa meal and cottonseed meal and also a little bat guano.

as for your question about potting mix vs potting soil. i honestly wouldnt recommend adding any miracle grow product to your garden. that being said the potting mix will be fluffier than the soil and can be used as an amendment. it has little white pieces of perlite which some people dont like the look of in the garden but it definitely wont hurt anything.

do you grow organically?

nnjjohn · March 31, 2013

I try to lean organically but, I'm just trying to grow healthy producers.. one bed that gets at best six hrs sun doesn't produce much.. but the capsule color test kit indicates i'm well below on nitrogen.. so I went to HD and bought a 3lb. bag of blood meal.. I didn't open the bag yet and thinking it might be a waste or even disappoint if I add this before or after planting. I fish and could make my own fish fertilizer, and the carcasses are free! I do not think I need this blood meal 12-0-0.. Soon I will be fishing a lot more and I do keep and fillet my own fish.. I could have used plenty of the carcasses I had this winter ice fishing! dang mistake.. But I still have time to bury fish carcass. I have the receipt for the blood meal.. not cheap.. but I can exchange it for something else.. all I know is the test kit shows everything else fine except the nitrogen level which is extremely low.. showing no color in February soil test.. now I have morecolor test capsules out of the 40 test capsules kit,, i tested five beds so far.. this month of April, I want to test sample them all again and see if weather and after the tilling I did few weeks ago makes any difference in the ph/ NPK levels I'll take pictures too maybe show them here.

matilda'skid · March 31, 2013

I wouldn't use expensive potting mix for a bed. You have to have it for pots. I would think a soil conditioner with pine bark fines or even screened pine bark mulch not the nuggets would loosen up your soil. Those are cheaper than potting mix. I wish I could find a peat based potting mix for $3.50 a cubic foot. I don't buy peat moss in the bags. The compressed rectangular packages or whatever you call them give you more for the money. The fish waste would be a good idea if you can bury it and not smell it. My friend put blood meal in her planter and the dog dug up all her flowers.

Cole_Robbie · March 31, 2013

I get it at Menards, if that helps, Matilda. It's a compressed bale.

Farmette · March 31, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

I get it at Menards, if that helps, Matilda. It's a compressed bale.

What is the exact name od the one you use...sounds like an orange Pro Mix with flowers and veggies on front?

Cole_Robbie · March 31, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farmette

What is the exact name od the one you use...sounds like an orange Pro Mix with flowers and veggies on front?

Yes, this one: http://www.menards.com/main/outdoors...53-c-10116.htm

They also sell this one: http://www.menards.com/main/outdoors...01-c-10116.htm

As far as I can tell, they are exactly the same thing and exactly the same unit price. Each compressed package will expand 2x its size, so the $14 bag of two compressed cubic feet makes four cubit feet.

bughunter99 · March 31, 2013

Yes, adding potting soil is a waste and if you lean organic you want to stay away from box store "Miracles". They will just mess up your soil further.

Sounds like there are two different issues, hard soil in the summer and very low nitrogen.

The hard soil is likely due to not enough organic matter in the soil, not enough mulch and possibly also compaction if you walk on it. The solution to the hard soil is to enhance the soil with lots of compost. And to keep a mulch cover on it winter and summer to protect it. Straw is a mulch that will add lots of nice organic matter to your soil. Just make sure it is straw without seed heads and don't use hay. (Too many weeds). I use cocoa bean mulch on my beds. Its pricey but looks great, keeps out the cats and adds nitrogen and carbon to the soil. Mulch not only decreases evaporation and keeps the soil from drying out quicker, but it also prevents rains from washing away the expensive nutrients you are adding. Plus it encourages worms to come to the surface to loosen up the soil. It also keeps the weeds down. And keeps soil from splashing up on the plants which can contribute to disease. Mother nature hates bare soil. Its bad for it. Always mulch well, no matter what.

Hard soil can also be related to high clay content. If this is true in your case, adding gypsum to the soil can help. Gypsum alone won't do much however without the other stuff above.

The nitrogen issue sounds severe if the test is accurate. I would suck it up and add the blood meal this season now to get things started and have some nitrogen immediately available to the soil. I would also add the fish parts to the holes, they will need to decompose fully for the plants to use them but will be working to make your soil that much better for next season. Other easy sources for nitrogen are alfalfa meal, human urine (before plants are started), coffee grounds, composted poultry manure, seaweed, and grass clippings. Note that putting fresh grass clippings in a bed actually decreases nitrogen available to plants while it decomposes, so it is a good idea to compost it first. You can also use crops like peas and beans to fix nitrogen in the soil. Just don't rip out their roots when they are done.

Stacy

matilda'skid · March 31, 2013

There aren't any Menards stores here, but it sounds like a good deal.

Worth1 · April 3, 2013

Is that a part blue tick hound in your avatar?

Worth

March 30, 2013	#1
nnjjohn Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: northern new jersey Posts: 683	Is it a waiste to use Miracle-gro potting mix instead of the cheaper garden soil if you already have plenty of garden soil? My soil gets hard in the summer and so thinking either peat moss or instead, for almost the same price 64oz bags of potting mix. this bed is about 20 x 4 feet thinking buying two bags at 14 dollars a bag.. for the garden or you think one big bag of peat and just use fertilizer? tia, john __________________ john

March 30, 2013	#2
nnjjohn Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: northern new jersey Posts: 683	i always mispell waste .. lol btw my beer belly waiste is 36 ..wish to get back to 33 or 34 lol __________________ john

March 31, 2013	#7
TightenUp Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Jersey Posts: 1,183	potting mix is usually peat based. http://www.gardenguides.com/99097-mi...gredients.html i found this site using google. i'm assuming its accurate but you can always check the bag. one tip for using peat moss. be sure to wet the peat moss thoroughly. i've read where people dug up part of their garden bed a year after adding peat and it was still bone dry. also as mentioned the peat will lower the ph. if your tomatoes did well last season you might not want to lower the ph unless you get your soil tested. i cheaply bought some rabbit manure from a guy in passaic and that can be added to your garden without even being composted. another option which i am trying for the first time this season is using alfalfa meal and cottonseed meal and also a little bat guano. as for your question about potting mix vs potting soil. i honestly wouldnt recommend adding any miracle grow product to your garden. that being said the potting mix will be fluffier than the soil and can be used as an amendment. it has little white pieces of perlite which some people dont like the look of in the garden but it definitely wont hurt anything. do you grow organically? __________________

March 31, 2013	#8
nnjjohn Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: northern new jersey Posts: 683	I try to lean organically but, I'm just trying to grow healthy producers.. one bed that gets at best six hrs sun doesn't produce much.. but the capsule color test kit indicates i'm well below on nitrogen.. so I went to HD and bought a 3lb. bag of blood meal.. I didn't open the bag yet and thinking it might be a waste or even disappoint if I add this before or after planting. I fish and could make my own fish fertilizer, and the carcasses are free! I do not think I need this blood meal 12-0-0.. Soon I will be fishing a lot more and I do keep and fillet my own fish.. I could have used plenty of the carcasses I had this winter ice fishing! dang mistake.. But I still have time to bury fish carcass. I have the receipt for the blood meal.. not cheap.. but I can exchange it for something else.. all I know is the test kit shows everything else fine except the nitrogen level which is extremely low.. showing no color in February soil test.. now I have morecolor test capsules out of the 40 test capsules kit,, i tested five beds so far.. this month of April, I want to test sample them all again and see if weather and after the tilling I did few weeks ago makes any difference in the ph/ NPK levels I'll take pictures too maybe show them here. __________________ john

March 31, 2013	#13
bughunter99 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: zone 5 Posts: 821	Yes, adding potting soil is a waste and if you lean organic you want to stay away from box store "Miracles". They will just mess up your soil further. Sounds like there are two different issues, hard soil in the summer and very low nitrogen. The hard soil is likely due to not enough organic matter in the soil, not enough mulch and possibly also compaction if you walk on it. The solution to the hard soil is to enhance the soil with lots of compost. And to keep a mulch cover on it winter and summer to protect it. Straw is a mulch that will add lots of nice organic matter to your soil. Just make sure it is straw without seed heads and don't use hay. (Too many weeds). I use cocoa bean mulch on my beds. Its pricey but looks great, keeps out the cats and adds nitrogen and carbon to the soil. Mulch not only decreases evaporation and keeps the soil from drying out quicker, but it also prevents rains from washing away the expensive nutrients you are adding. Plus it encourages worms to come to the surface to loosen up the soil. It also keeps the weeds down. And keeps soil from splashing up on the plants which can contribute to disease. Mother nature hates bare soil. Its bad for it. Always mulch well, no matter what. Hard soil can also be related to high clay content. If this is true in your case, adding gypsum to the soil can help. Gypsum alone won't do much however without the other stuff above. The nitrogen issue sounds severe if the test is accurate. I would suck it up and add the blood meal this season now to get things started and have some nitrogen immediately available to the soil. I would also add the fish parts to the holes, they will need to decompose fully for the plants to use them but will be working to make your soil that much better for next season. Other easy sources for nitrogen are alfalfa meal, human urine (before plants are started), coffee grounds, composted poultry manure, seaweed, and grass clippings. Note that putting fresh grass clippings in a bed actually decreases nitrogen available to plants while it decomposes, so it is a good idea to compost it first. You can also use crops like peas and beans to fix nitrogen in the soil. Just don't rip out their roots when they are done. Stacy Last edited by bughunter99; March 31, 2013 at 09:47 PM.

March 30, 2013	#3
Al@NC Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Vernon, BC Posts: 720	Are you replacing your mix this year or is it a new bed?

March 30, 2013	#5
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	Your soil gets like that because it needs organic matter. Peat will work, but so will many other things. Peat is acidic, and you have to be careful about not giving yourself ph problems. Buffering it with limestone can balance the acidity, but I find it easier to just buy a peat-based pro mix for $3.50 per cubic foot. Compost of any kind will increase your organic matter, and you can also use perlite for aeration as well. If you buy perlite, get it in a big bag, 3 cubic feet or so, and it's much cheaper. Another product that is useful for moisture retention is vermiculite; you can often find it with the insulation products where building products are sold.

March 31, 2013	#9
matilda'skid Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 309	I wouldn't use expensive potting mix for a bed. You have to have it for pots. I would think a soil conditioner with pine bark fines or even screened pine bark mulch not the nuggets would loosen up your soil. Those are cheaper than potting mix. I wish I could find a peat based potting mix for $3.50 a cubic foot. I don't buy peat moss in the bags. The compressed rectangular packages or whatever you call them give you more for the money. The fish waste would be a good idea if you can bury it and not smell it. My friend put blood meal in her planter and the dog dug up all her flowers.

April 3, 2013	#15
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	Is that a part blue tick hound in your avatar? Worth