RE: Slow growth this year 2013?

[Master_Gardener]

I'm in central Indiana. This year all my plants, except for my fruit trees, seem to be growing slowly. I've made some changes to my garden by adding wood chips as much. No till here.

I know that wood chips can draw some N from the soil but I thought it only affected the top 2 mm or so? OTOH, it could be weather related or even my desire to see big plants. Everything seems to be in slow motion this year. I also have more pests this year than ever before.

How are your plants doing?

[Redbaron]

The first 4-5 years when using organic methods are the toughest. I can post you easily 1/2 a dozen references from around the world from all sorts of various methods and ALL of them say the same. It is the single most common theme from everyone. You simply have to bite the bullet, do the best you can, and be patient. Nature doesn't fix things over night. You can force it with chemicals, or be patient and wait for nature!

Now once you realize that, there are things you can do to gently "coax" nature. Manures and other higher nitrogen organic ferts like blood meal can help. Inoculating with micros or using compost teas and foliar feed helps too. But long term you just must wait.

"Organic" refers to "humus", and no matter how much leaves, mulches, manures, compost, teas etc etc etc you add, that "organic" material is not humus. Humus is what's left after all forms of biological decay are finished with the materials you added. That takes a few years, because it must cycle through several times.

[tam91]

I got bark fines for the first time last year - used them mixed in containers, and on top of the soil in my herb garden. And nothing grew very well. I don't know exactly why, but I won't be doing that again.

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by tam91

I got bark fines for the first time last year - used them mixed in containers, and on top of the soil in my herb garden. And nothing grew very well. I don't know exactly why, but I won't be doing that again.

Yes Tam, in a container, anything that takes longer than one season would be a poor choice as an additive. But a similar thing is happening. The bark fines are woody and require a lot of energy to break down. The biological organisms doing that work not only require energy, like all life, they need proteins to build their bodies. Proteins means nitrogen. In the long term that nitrogen will cycle through the biological processes and eventually be available to the plants. But with woody materials that takes more time than is worth it in a container. You can use a little on top as moisture control. But the vast majority of the mix in a container needs to be able to hold and then release nutrients to the plants much faster. In your herb garden that isn't in containers there will be a short term reduction, followed by a long term benefit. But we are talking years, not weeks or months.

That's why although I do use "brown" mulches, I also am very careful to use "green" mulches too. They decompose and release their nitrogen much faster. I can't emphasize this enough. You need significantly more green mulches to balance out the brown mulches.

[Master_Gardener]

Originally Posted by Redbaron

... That's why although I do use "brown" mulches, I also am very careful to use "green" mulches too. They decompose and release their nitrogen much faster. I can't emphasize this enough. You need significantly more green mulches to balance out the brown mulches.

I grow comfrey and stinging nettles to use as 'chop 'n drop'. Would that qualify as green much in your view? Other than chop 'n drop, how do you use green mulch?

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by Master_Gardener

I grow comfrey and stinging nettles to use as 'chop 'n drop'. Would that qualify as green much in your view? Other than chop 'n drop, how do you use green mulch?

I use "green" mulches 3 ways. mixed with brown mulches and top dressed, top dressed by itself as a separate layer in a kind of "lasagna bed" technique, and composted first then used as a already mostly decomposed mulch.

I almost never use a "brown" mulch unless it is thoroughly mixed with enough "green" mulch to prevent nitrogen problems. The one exception is in the fall I cover everything with 1-3 inches of chopped fallen tree leaves. By spring it generally has decomposed enough to not present any problems at all, only benefits.
I don't actually grow comfrey or nettles or anything like that specifically for green mulches. I do use grass clippings though. And in the past I have experimented with various cover crops like annual legumes etc.

[SIP Gro-Tubs]

Originally Posted by Master_Gardener

I grow comfrey and stinging nettles to use as 'chop 'n drop'. Would that qualify as green much in your view? Other than chop 'n drop, how do you use green mulch?

Comfrey leaves are the best for a green mulch. The roots of comfrey grow deep for mineral's buried deep that most plants can't get to.

Had a comfrey plant that had been growing for over 5 years. We dug beside it to a depth of 8' and the taproot at that depth was still over 2" in diameter.

A stinging Bull Nettle has a taproot that can go just as deep and it also brings up a lot of deep minerals. Also the taproot looks like a giant carrot.

Terry

[Master_Gardener]

Originally Posted by SIP Gro-Tubs

Comfrey leaves are the best for a green mulch. The roots of comfrey grow deep for mineral's buried deep that most plants can't get to.

Had a comfrey plant that had been growing for over 5 years. We dug beside it to a depth of 8' and the taproot at that depth was still over 2" in diameter.

A stinging Bull Nettle has a taproot that can go just as deep and it also brings up a lot of deep minerals. Also the taproot looks like a giant carrot.

Terry

Terry:

Thank you for your post. I'm sure it was a lot of work to dig that deep. I had read about Comfrey and Nettle for use as a nutrient accumulator. I knew that the roots grew deep but it's even better to get this confirmed first hand.

Thanks again

[Chucker]

Originally Posted by tam91

I got bark fines for the first time last year - used them mixed in containers, and on top of the soil in my herb garden. And nothing grew very well. I don't know exactly why, but I won't be doing that again.

I thought I was the only one, everyone else seems to love adding bark fines to their mixes, but when I added them, plant growth was horrible, so I also won't do that again.

[bughunter99]

My money is on weather related Russell. I think you guys are seeing the same rain/clouds day after day that we have been having here in the Chicago area. The lack of sun slows things down-except of course the weeds. My best growth is in the self watering containers, which makes me believe the rain/lack of sun is keeping soil temps a little low too.

Don't worry about the mulch unless your plants are showing signs of nitrogen deficiency. (Yellow/green-->yellow) leaves at bottom of the plant is one of the first signs. If you see that, leave the mulch and just give the plants a hit of blood meal.

Today looks like it is going to be good out there though!

Stacy

[Master_Gardener]

Originally Posted by bughunter99

... Don't worry about the mulch unless your plants are showing signs of nitrogen deficiency. (Yellow/green-->yellow) leaves at bottom of the plant is one of the first signs. If you see that, leave the mulch and just give the plants a hit of blood meal.

Stacy

The only sign of Chlorossis was in some radishes I planted early in the new bed I built. I gave them a hit of N, as you suggested, and they shaped right up. My other beds and plants seem to be doing fine in that department.

[Tom A To]

And don't forget: A watched pot never boils. I've experienced that this year waiting for the sunflowers to get big enough to survive earwig damage.

[tlintx]

I have had mixed results with wood chips as a soil additive, but I haven't ever heard of it being an issue as a mulch! Are the plants planted below the mulch line?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the bark fines in containers were supposed to provide lightweight bulk, mostly? The popular bark fines recipe has most of the nutrients provided by fertilizer and fertigation? And supposed to last a few years, until you'd normally repot anyway?

I use it for a couple of slow growing, dry-preferring perennials and they are very happy. But the tomatoes in it failed miserably, I suspect because I didn't provide enough additional nutrients. And because it just requires a lot of watering and it's hard to keep it evenly watered.

As far as slow goes... is it a lot colder there this year than usual? I found all of my tomatoes would grow very little while it was cool, then shoot up a ridiculous amount when I wasn't looking if we had a warm spell. I also found the ones buried deeper took off faster. They all caught up eventually, but the buried deeper ones seem tougher.

Do you have enough sun? I have a couple that aren't doing much, and they're just not getting enough sun. They aren't dying, but they also aren't growing very quickly.

Also, bigger is not necessarily better. My goal this season was to keep the plants alive and get a ripe tomato. My goal for next season is lots of tomatoes and just enough foliage to support those tomatoes!

If you think it might be a nutrition issue, you could look at the Urban Farms fertilizer thread. It's ridiculously informative.

[SharonRossy]

Wow, this makes me nervous as I was planning on doing the bark fine mix. I have peat moss, perlite, lime and a slow release fertilizer that will be incorporated. From what I've read, this mix does require fertilizing frequently. I was considering using Promix HP or BX instead of the peat moss. Maybe I should through in some organic container mix with humus.
Sharon

[Chucker]

Originally Posted by SharonRossy

Wow, this makes me nervous as I was planning on doing the bark fine mix. I have peat moss, perlite, lime and a slow release fertilizer that will be incorporated. From what I've read, this mix does require fertilizing frequently. I was considering using Promix HP or BX instead of the peat moss. Maybe I should through in some organic container mix with humus.
Sharon

I think you will be fine with frequent fertilizing, I think that was my problem. I had such great success in previous years with only the initial fertilizer strips in my SWCs that I didn't do frequent fertilizing when I tried the bark fines.