Does cloning tomato plants lead to decreased production?

[Vince]

Just curious. If you propagate tomato plants asexually(make cuttings), do the ensueing plants produce as well as the parent? How about flavor? I am looking for answers from experience not theory.

Vince

[carolyn137]

Vince, when propagating plants asexually by taking cuttinbgs, aka cloning, the plants you get are identical to the original.

So everything remains the same.

Many folks, especially those in the more southern regions, will take cuttings from some of their plants in late summer to grow plants for their Fall season.

And some of us even in the northern climes will do so when there's been critter damage or hail damage or wind damage or whatever.

[bizzarbazzar]

I was wondering if anyone has ever done this and cloned a plant for several years...?

[Worth1]

Almost all rosemary that you buy are clones.
The ones from seed grow poorly if at all.
Some do well though, but cloning is better.
So if you buy a rosemary plant you may very well be getting a plant that came from one years ago.

Worth

[bizzarbazzar]

Makes sense. What about with a tomato plant...?

I know what you mean about hard to start Rosemary from seed. I had no luck at all with it at all. It was the one herb I was without (of the herbs I wanted) this year.

[Polar_Lace]

Originally Posted by bizzarbazzar

I was wondering if anyone has ever done this and cloned a plant for several years...?

This is my plant of Fruit-Scented Sage, Peach Sage 'Salvia dorisiana' She is a clone of the first one I bought in 2004. She is coming inside this year. Her current height is 4 foot tall by 3 feet wide in a 3 gallon pot; I will move her into a 7 gallon pot once inside. (mumbling about the $30.00 I spent for that pot....)



Salvia dorisiana Leaf in Hand

Originally Posted by bizzarbazzar

What about with a tomato plant...?

I'm trying it this year; my cuttings are already taken & inside, doing well so far.

Originally Posted by bizzarbazzar

Rosemary... I had no luck at all with it at all. It was the one herb I was without (of the herbs I wanted) this year.

pm me; when I get my cuttings rooted; Ill send you some.

[dcarch]

Cutting is not cloning, as I understand it.

dcarch

[Worth1]

dcarc wrote
"Cutting is not cloning, as I understand it."

This may help

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloning

Worth

[carolyn137]

dcarc wrote
"Cutting is not cloning, as I understand it."


Please note that in the link Worth provided it says that a multi cellular organism also gives rise to a clone and a tomato plant is a multi-cellular organism. And that's why in my first post here I said that taking cuttings is cloning.

So many folks think that one has to start with a single cell, but that's not the case at all.

So taking cuttings from a tomato plant is cloning b'c you're preserving all the same DNA that was in the original multi-cellular tomato plant that came from the original seed for a specific variety.

There are folks I know of who have maintained tomato plants by cloning for several years. For many the yield does go down, but not for all.

And I also have friends who take cuttings late in the Fall and then propagate them thru the winter, but they have to do continual cuttings b'c the darn plants get too big and you want them at the right size to put out for the summer season.

As for me, I couldn't put up with doing that over the winter but it does work for those who have bought plants and have no intention of starting from seed.

[dcarch]

I am absolutely not an expert in this kind of knowledge:

Is it true:

In cuttings, you will not stop the aging process. You will also possibly continue some systemic disease which was acquired by the original plant. ?

In cloning, you get a brand new "baby", and the baby is disease free. ?

dcarch

[Worth1]

To give a little more information on this cloning subject,
I will use pecans for an example; pecans that come up from seed are called native pecans.
This is not actually a correct term to use; they are pecans that are pollinated by the wind from another tree.
They can produce nuts of any size or shape.
You cannot plant a pecan and expect to get the same nut as the one you planted.
Growers have purposely cross pollinated two known cultivars and then they have to wait a few years NOT days to see what they get.
Then if the thing turns out to be an ok pecan then they will give it a name and put it on the market.
To do this they clone the things form then on by way of grafting.
Some trees are found in the wild and cuttings are taken from them to graft to other trees that are well established.
The Stewart pecan is an example of this, it was found in San Saba Texas, and this original tree is called the mother Stewart tree.
All Stewart pecans originated from this tree as no one knows what its parents were.

Loblolly trees are ones that do well in wet soil some trees cannot handle the wet soil so trees that grow better in dry soil are grafted to tree root seedlings that grow in this wet soil thusly you can have the pecan you want in the wetter soils.

I could go on forever about pecans and trees but this is a tomato forum, but you can see the implications here for tomatoes and grafting and or cloning.
But with trees this is a big plus as trees take so long to grow.

To some of you guys this is old hat, but I thought it might of interest to the ones that didn’t know this.

Worth

[bizzarbazzar]

Polar Lace, thank you for the offer...I will PM you on the rosemary. The fruit scented sage is gorgeous. I had one up front in my herb garden, its about a year old. I am sure its still out there...but the front yard is set up to take care of itsel and DH does the weed pulling up there and brings the herbs in for me when I need. I have yet to use the fruit scented sage for anything but touching the leaves and smelling it...Do you use it in culinary purposes?

I may try an attempt on one of my plants to see how it does over the winter, while rooting some cuttings/cloning etc. I have no clue what the plant is and the tomatoes were fabulous, crack free, highly productive. The fruit look like 4-6 ounce Christmas ornaments (not round). It was not Lemon Boy as the packet stated (It was pink) and since Lemon Boy is hybrid. I would not know what it is.... I have nothing but time right now.....I suppose it cant hurt to try....

Thanks everyone

[carolyn137]

If one repeatedly takes cuttings from cuttings so to speak, there can be degredation of traits over time. There is a specific horticulutural term for this but it escapes me.


Yes, I alluded to that above Keith when I said that yield diminished for some folks and I can't think of the botanic word for it either.

In the meantime how about PCYD ( possible cuttings yield depression). :wink:

[landarc]

Now, I was taught that the difference between true cloning and cutting propagation lies in the fact that true cloning relies upon the harvesting of growth cells from the apical meristem to develop the purest genetic material. Whereas, cuttings can include older cells and inherent variation in genetic material. Thus, the use of cutting to develop addtional plants can result in plants with charateristics typical to that specific branch and not the parent plant specifically, including a decrease in productivity and variations in growth.

Worth, in my industry, what you are referring to we know as cultivars, essentially, the use of cutting grown plants to attempt to insure a set of desired growth habits consistent with a certain plant. Seed rarely provides this. We (Land Arcs.) use this term botanically incorrectly, I am told by my sister (MSHort) and my dad (74 years in flower growing) but, cloning and propagation are distinctly different to them.

All this being said, cloning, or cutting propagation, can result in narrowing the possible responses to growth factors that a plant might have, but, ultimately, even a truly cloned plant will not share production characteristics entirely with it's parent plant for a number of reasons, most importantly the environment facor. Unless the environment is specifically controller in every aspect, production will vary. Also, even a clone will carry latent genetic characteristics that might express given natural variation in response to growth factors.