Hybrid grape/cherry varieties

zipcode · August 20, 2013

My personal opinion is that the hybrids for the segment 'cocktail size and smaller' has a lot more to offer in terms of taste and productivity than OPs. In last few years I've tried store tomatoes in small sizes and usually they have been better than what I tried in the garden.
One of my favourite cherries is Galina, and even that, I bought once some very similar cherries (in taste) in store that were obviously picked rather green so they might have gotten even better. And I bet they were a lot more productive than stingy Galina.
The problem with tomatoes bought in store, is that even if they have a name, it's not going to be the name of the variety, so you have no clue where you could buy same seeds. And most of those seeds will only be available in bulk or or worse.
So I am now on a quest to trial a decent amount of these hybrids. But there are very few opinions on the internet about these, I guess commercial growers don't post much.
In the UK there are is quite a decent selection, so will order from there. The official descriptions don't really say anything, the word sweet or supersweet or candy is thrown in every 2 words.

So ideally what I'd like is thin skin, strong taste, and preferably balanced sweet/acid, maybe on the acid side (Galina is my example of a very good balance, but it's somewhat mild in taste).

I made a 'small' list to see what you guys think of these, in case anyone tried them. I won't buy that many of course

, they are expensive (0.3-0.5 euro per seed), I'll try to narrow it down based on opinions.

Grapes:
Rosada, Sungrape, Golden Gem (seems to be the same as Gold gem), Sweet olive, Nectar, Trilly, Tomatoberry (Garden version and Grande version), Orange Santa (is this the same as Santorange?), Lizziebell+Katiebell+Luciebell (red+orange+yellow grapes sold as a mix pack).

Cherries:
Sakura, Suncherry premium, Tastyno, Golden cherry (appears to be bred by Tokita), Summer Sun (by Hazera, I can only buy them in minimum 50 seeds which makes them kinda extremely expensive, but they're supposedly 'the best tomato evah').

Trialing hybrids is expensive business, so I hope this thread to be useful to as many people as possible, so if you have tried a Hybrid cherry/grape not on the list that you think is fantastic, please post. (except Sungold

)

moon1234 · September 23, 2013

Depends on what market you are growing for. If you are a home gardener then your list of wants will be very different than a market grower. Sungold SUCKS for me as they will NOT ship. They crack like all get out if you EVER get any amount of rain. They MUST be grown in the desert or a high tunnel to control cracking and even then they are a ★★★★★. I am NOT growing them next year.

For grapes I am down to just one red variety that has been reliable for the last three years, ships well and customers like the taste. That variety is Tami-G. They have size issues (too small) if spacing is less than 15" in row. 18" will be safe. For yellow grapes I have had fantastic success with Solid Gold. The color combination with Tami-G is excellent for selling in mixed pint clamshell containers. Solid Gold tastes good, holds for weeks without losing it's taste. Moderate cracking.

Cherry tomatoes I still grow Sweet Millions. They don't look all that great, crack at times, but I can ship them locally and the chefs love them for taste. Sweet Gold are the best tasting Yellow Cherry I have trialed over three years. It complements Sweet Million well and most taste testers said it is on par with Sweet Million. It cracks less, is VERY vigorous` (Had vines this year over seven feet tall) and sets well in the field.

Sungold has disease problems, crack problems and is a pain to pick. ALL of my taste testers did NOT prefer them to Sweet Gold or Sweet Million. My chef's don't even ask for them anymore. What is the obsession with these anyway?

I am still on a search for a good TRUE orange grape. I like a three color trifecta for pint clamshells. The multiple colors in a pint really sell well for me. I am thinking of trying Lizziebelle in 2014, but would like to hear from someone who has grown on more of a commercial scale trial (100 or more plants.) I would like to grow 250-500 plants for 2014.

NarnianGarden · September 23, 2013

Wow, zipcode, how did you find all those names? I have given up trying to find out how store bought varieties are called - even when I manage to get in touch with the grower (if they're Finnish), they cannot tell me the name, since most greenhouses have a large selection and a wide clientele base.. they do not seem to be able to keep track what variety was sold where.

I have collected seeds from some exceptionally tasty cherries, whether local or from Spain (where many of our cherry tomatoes come from...). It will be a fun risk to see how they turn out next year, if they germinate. One tasty one was called 'pearl tomato' and it's yellow. Pearl might be just a type, not a variety. It will be interesting to see the results... whether there will be any yellow at all, or something else.

PNW_D · September 23, 2013

zipcode

check out this combo of 4 ...... expensive for only 8 seeds!

http://www.thompson-morgan.com/veget...lend/tt01105TM

I was gifted a package from a friend who picked them up on his travels to England - also includes Flamingo (pink) along with the bells -

have not grown these yet ....... and I too would be interested in any feedback on taste, etc.

also check out Apero F1 (Le Paysan - France) - another I was gifted this summer - yet to grow
http://www.le-paysan.com/panier-prod...b130542346a668

and in English
http://www.dobies.co.uk/Garden/Veget...eds_439010.htm

Salsacharley · September 23, 2013

If you are willing to deal with a corporate monster:

http://www.eurofresh.com/products_bella.asp

DavidP · September 23, 2013

I picked up some "Piccolo" which are small red cherries from Sainsburys supermarket in the UK a few years back and whilst I assume they are F1 I have been growing them from saved seed for a few years with good success. The resulting fruit seem to me to be the same as the ones i've bought. Whether they are or not i guess is open to discussion but I've seen a few posts on UK forums with the same result. Good variety with a nice balanced taste.
So might be worth trying saving some seeds from bought varieties you like and see what happens in the F2. I seem to remember most cherries I've bought in the Uk did have a variety name in small print, sometimes not always easy to find though. That may have changed as thats from a few years back now.

zipcode · September 23, 2013

Thanks for the answers guys.
I'm not a commercial grower, just a home grower growing in difficult conditions. Plants that lack strong vigour, like most heirlooms, just do poorly here, which is why I'm trying something new.

moon1234, for an orange grape you may want to try Bambelo (by Syngenta). I have from someone some f2 seeds that I planted this year. Beautiful plant with rather orange flowers and shiny leaves. Probably the segregation got me toward longer shelf life. Even though they were fast to start ripening, it took about 3-4 weeks for the fruit to actually ripen. Very thin skin, absolutely no crackin, when even roma cracked, nice shiny orange fruits shaped like a small roma with dimples. Now my problem is the taste. It has thick walls that are rather too sweet for me and lacking in flavour. The seeds have very good taste but there aren't that many (like a cherry). For a commercial grower seems like really good stuff though, and productive. (http://ogrodniczo-rolny.pl/pl/pomido...ambelo-f1.html)

NarnianGarden, there are some Rubin Pearl and Golden Pearl tomatoes, available in Europe in various countries.

DavidP, in UK there are indeed better choices when comes to premium tomatoes in store, than Germany for example. I know Sunstream is available there so people can try f2s. Original seeds cost in Germany over 2 euro the seed (http://www.oeko-saatgut-shop.de/wbc....uktdetail.html).

I have ordered about 11 varieties in total from my initial list about a week ago, so for now I'll keep to trying f2s and maybe trading people for their other f2s. If anyone in Europe wants a good place to order with good prices, selection and shipping, try Simpsons and Plants of distinction in UK. T&M is have really high prices.

NarnianGarden · September 23, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by zipcode

NarnianGarden, there are some Rubin Pearl and Golden Pearl tomatoes, available in Europe in various countries.

Yes, they probably are what I have seen in the supermarkets - but they have no specific name tag, just 'pearl tomato'.
I have never seen any supermarket offering the name of their varieties .. so finding those seeds would be impossible.

Most of those hybrids would probably be off-limits to private gardeners anyway and only available to professional greenhouse growers. So that's why I am surprised you know all these professional varieties..

tlintx · September 23, 2013

I've been tempted by some of the commercial hybrids on sale at Johnny's and other places but the prices are so high even on sale that it seemed unsustainable on a home gardener scale. And it seems like these hybrids wax and wane in popularity/availability -- if it's one thing I know, it's the annoyance of finding a perfect X and discovering it was so cheap 'cuz it was on clearance and they aren't making it anymore!

MrBig46 · September 24, 2013

I planted these hybrid cherry tomatoes: Philova, Philovita, Tomatoberry, Finik oranževyj and Sladkaja děvočka. Only Tomatoberry and Sladkaja děvočka (from estonish web) don´t cracked in these days. I shall continue and propagate hybrids from this year´s suckers (clones) within the winter . I don´t use F2 seeds.
Vladimír

Cole_Robbie · September 25, 2013

I posted about it before, but the Chinese heirloom yellow pear Chang Li, which I got from Tormato's seed swap, really made me question the 'hybrids are better' idea. Chang Li grew better in neglected and adverse conditions than any other of the dozens of varieties I planted, hybrid or heirloom.

Black Cherry is another OP variety that is a strong grower.

Regarding hybrids, I was frustrated at first by Lemon Drop's fruit setting ability in my high tunnel. Today I was pulling up my mostly dead plants in the high tunnel that have not been watered all summer; I grew the crop for spring, then just abandoned it. The Lemon Drop plant was covered in fruit; none of the other neglected plants in the high tunnel still had fruit.

ddsack · September 25, 2013

Quote:

I've been tempted by some of the commercial hybrids on sale at Johnny's and other places but the prices are so high even on sale that it seemed unsustainable on a home gardener scale. And it seems like these hybrids wax and wane in popularity/availability -- if it's one thing I know, it's the annoyance of finding a perfect X and discovering it was so cheap 'cuz it was on clearance and they aren't making it anymore!

When I started gardening I grew only hybrids and found a great tasting dependable one in Rushmore Hyb that was sold by the old Gurney company. When they quit offering it, I could find nothing else I liked as well -- so actually the disappearance of that one hybrid was what led me to heirlooms! Now I find all hybrids taste similar to me, and I don't bother with them anymore. Every once in a while I try a new one, but none have lasting appeal.

Fred Hempel · July 15, 2014

Sweet Olive is great!

drew51 · July 15, 2014

I don't have that much experience but I like Jasper. it is a red, and it did crack some. Has a nice balanced taste to me. But we had a terrible spring last year (I'm not growing it this year-I want to try others).
Jasper won the 2013 All-America Selection award. So far best i tried, but I have tried very few.

Here's a write up from Park Seed about jasper

Jasper is a cherry tomato that has it all! Winner of a 2013 All-America Selection award, it is distinctive in flavor, texture, holding ability, and overall garden performance, including high yields and great disease resistance. In other words, if you're looking for an easy-to-grow, delicious, generous-harvesting cherry (and who isn't?!), Jasper is the one you've simply got to try!
These ¾-inch diameter round red fruits arise in clusters of about a dozen all over vining, indeterminate (they keep producing all season long) plants. Very uniform in size, shape, and color, they look as good as they taste!
Jasper is very resistant to both early and late blight, as well as to races 1 and 2 of fusarium wilt. This makes it possible to grow in gardens where other cherry tomatoes may have been unsuccessful. And it's one less concern for the gardener!And your harvest will never get out of hand with Jasper. The fruit holds on the vine very well, and also has a good shelf life after picking.

AlittleSalt · July 16, 2014

I am going to transplant 3 Jellybean tomato plants tomorrow. The description on the package of seeds say they are jellybean sized, so I'm guessing they are grape tomatoes? The plants have come up strong and healthy looking, so I'm hoping for the best. (I've never grown grape tomatoes before)

As for cherry and smaller size tomatoes, I know that, "Porter" tomatoes are popular in the UK. Porter tomatoes were cultivated in Texas, USA for areas that get a lot of high temperature days in the summer months (100F/37C and higher). The fruit are golf ball sized and are a prolific producer of slightly more acidic tasting tomatoes. I have noticed that when the temperatures are above 95F/35C - the skins get a little bit thicker, but the tomatoes still have a uniform good taste.

Porter tomatoes will come back as volunteers very easily the next growing season. I have seen them being sold as: Porter, Improved Porter, Porter's Pride, and Small Porter. I have bought all 4 varieties, and they all grow and produce the same. (3 years of growing). I've read online that there are differences, but I have not seen any differences.

Porter tomatoes are something to grow that makes me feel proud because they always produce quantity and quality for a long growing time.

August 20, 2013	#1
zipcode Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Romania/Germany , z 4-6 Posts: 1,582	Hybrid grape/cherry varieties My personal opinion is that the hybrids for the segment 'cocktail size and smaller' has a lot more to offer in terms of taste and productivity than OPs. In last few years I've tried store tomatoes in small sizes and usually they have been better than what I tried in the garden. One of my favourite cherries is Galina, and even that, I bought once some very similar cherries (in taste) in store that were obviously picked rather green so they might have gotten even better. And I bet they were a lot more productive than stingy Galina. The problem with tomatoes bought in store, is that even if they have a name, it's not going to be the name of the variety, so you have no clue where you could buy same seeds. And most of those seeds will only be available in bulk or or worse. So I am now on a quest to trial a decent amount of these hybrids. But there are very few opinions on the internet about these, I guess commercial growers don't post much. In the UK there are is quite a decent selection, so will order from there. The official descriptions don't really say anything, the word sweet or supersweet or candy is thrown in every 2 words. So ideally what I'd like is thin skin, strong taste, and preferably balanced sweet/acid, maybe on the acid side (Galina is my example of a very good balance, but it's somewhat mild in taste). I made a 'small' list to see what you guys think of these, in case anyone tried them. I won't buy that many of course , they are expensive (0.3-0.5 euro per seed), I'll try to narrow it down based on opinions. Grapes: Rosada, Sungrape, Golden Gem (seems to be the same as Gold gem), Sweet olive, Nectar, Trilly, Tomatoberry (Garden version and Grande version), Orange Santa (is this the same as Santorange?), Lizziebell+Katiebell+Luciebell (red+orange+yellow grapes sold as a mix pack). Cherries: Sakura, Suncherry premium, Tastyno, Golden cherry (appears to be bred by Tokita), Summer Sun (by Hazera, I can only buy them in minimum 50 seeds which makes them kinda extremely expensive, but they're supposedly 'the best tomato evah'). Trialing hybrids is expensive business, so I hope this thread to be useful to as many people as possible, so if you have tried a Hybrid cherry/grape not on the list that you think is fantastic, please post. (except Sungold )

September 23, 2013	#4
PNW_D Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: West Coast, Canada Posts: 961	zipcode check out this combo of 4 ...... expensive for only 8 seeds! http://www.thompson-morgan.com/veget...lend/tt01105TM I was gifted a package from a friend who picked them up on his travels to England - also includes Flamingo (pink) along with the bells - have not grown these yet ....... and I too would be interested in any feedback on taste, etc. also check out Apero F1 (Le Paysan - France) - another I was gifted this summer - yet to grow http://www.le-paysan.com/panier-prod...b130542346a668 and in English http://www.dobies.co.uk/Garden/Veget...eds_439010.htm __________________ D. Last edited by PNW_D; September 23, 2013 at 12:20 PM.

September 23, 2013	#2
moon1234 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 54	Depends on what market you are growing for. If you are a home gardener then your list of wants will be very different than a market grower. Sungold SUCKS for me as they will NOT ship. They crack like all get out if you EVER get any amount of rain. They MUST be grown in the desert or a high tunnel to control cracking and even then they are a ★★★★★. I am NOT growing them next year. For grapes I am down to just one red variety that has been reliable for the last three years, ships well and customers like the taste. That variety is Tami-G. They have size issues (too small) if spacing is less than 15" in row. 18" will be safe. For yellow grapes I have had fantastic success with Solid Gold. The color combination with Tami-G is excellent for selling in mixed pint clamshell containers. Solid Gold tastes good, holds for weeks without losing it's taste. Moderate cracking. Cherry tomatoes I still grow Sweet Millions. They don't look all that great, crack at times, but I can ship them locally and the chefs love them for taste. Sweet Gold are the best tasting Yellow Cherry I have trialed over three years. It complements Sweet Million well and most taste testers said it is on par with Sweet Million. It cracks less, is VERY vigorous` (Had vines this year over seven feet tall) and sets well in the field. Sungold has disease problems, crack problems and is a pain to pick. ALL of my taste testers did NOT prefer them to Sweet Gold or Sweet Million. My chef's don't even ask for them anymore. What is the obsession with these anyway? I am still on a search for a good TRUE orange grape. I like a three color trifecta for pint clamshells. The multiple colors in a pint really sell well for me. I am thinking of trying Lizziebelle in 2014, but would like to hear from someone who has grown on more of a commercial scale trial (100 or more plants.) I would like to grow 250-500 plants for 2014.

September 23, 2013	#3
NarnianGarden Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Finland, EU Posts: 2,550	Wow, zipcode, how did you find all those names? I have given up trying to find out how store bought varieties are called - even when I manage to get in touch with the grower (if they're Finnish), they cannot tell me the name, since most greenhouses have a large selection and a wide clientele base.. they do not seem to be able to keep track what variety was sold where. I have collected seeds from some exceptionally tasty cherries, whether local or from Spain (where many of our cherry tomatoes come from...). It will be a fun risk to see how they turn out next year, if they germinate. One tasty one was called 'pearl tomato' and it's yellow. Pearl might be just a type, not a variety. It will be interesting to see the results... whether there will be any yellow at all, or something else.

September 23, 2013	#5
Salsacharley Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2013 Location: New Mexico Posts: 2,052	If you are willing to deal with a corporate monster: http://www.eurofresh.com/products_bella.asp

September 23, 2013	#6
DavidP Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Riverside, Southern California, USDA 9b, Sunset 19 Posts: 63	I picked up some "Piccolo" which are small red cherries from Sainsburys supermarket in the UK a few years back and whilst I assume they are F1 I have been growing them from saved seed for a few years with good success. The resulting fruit seem to me to be the same as the ones i've bought. Whether they are or not i guess is open to discussion but I've seen a few posts on UK forums with the same result. Good variety with a nice balanced taste. So might be worth trying saving some seeds from bought varieties you like and see what happens in the F2. I seem to remember most cherries I've bought in the Uk did have a variety name in small print, sometimes not always easy to find though. That may have changed as thats from a few years back now.

September 23, 2013	#9
tlintx Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: SeTx Posts: 881	I've been tempted by some of the commercial hybrids on sale at Johnny's and other places but the prices are so high even on sale that it seemed unsustainable on a home gardener scale. And it seems like these hybrids wax and wane in popularity/availability -- if it's one thing I know, it's the annoyance of finding a perfect X and discovering it was so cheap 'cuz it was on clearance and they aren't making it anymore!

September 24, 2013	#10
MrBig46 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Czech republic Posts: 2,541	I planted these hybrid cherry tomatoes: Philova, Philovita, Tomatoberry, Finik oranževyj and Sladkaja děvočka. Only Tomatoberry and Sladkaja děvočka (from estonish web) don´t cracked in these days. I shall continue and propagate hybrids from this year´s suckers (clones) within the winter . I don´t use F2 seeds. Vladimír

September 25, 2013	#11
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	I posted about it before, but the Chinese heirloom yellow pear Chang Li, which I got from Tormato's seed swap, really made me question the 'hybrids are better' idea. Chang Li grew better in neglected and adverse conditions than any other of the dozens of varieties I planted, hybrid or heirloom. Black Cherry is another OP variety that is a strong grower. Regarding hybrids, I was frustrated at first by Lemon Drop's fruit setting ability in my high tunnel. Today I was pulling up my mostly dead plants in the high tunnel that have not been watered all summer; I grew the crop for spring, then just abandoned it. The Lemon Drop plant was covered in fruit; none of the other neglected plants in the high tunnel still had fruit.

July 15, 2014	#13
Fred Hempel Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Sunol, CA Posts: 2,723	Sweet Olive is great!

July 15, 2014	#14
drew51 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Sterling Heights, MI Zone 6a/5b Posts: 1,302	I don't have that much experience but I like Jasper. it is a red, and it did crack some. Has a nice balanced taste to me. But we had a terrible spring last year (I'm not growing it this year-I want to try others). Jasper won the 2013 All-America Selection award. So far best i tried, but I have tried very few. Here's a write up from Park Seed about jasper Jasper is a cherry tomato that has it all! Winner of a 2013 All-America Selection award, it is distinctive in flavor, texture, holding ability, and overall garden performance, including high yields and great disease resistance. In other words, if you're looking for an easy-to-grow, delicious, generous-harvesting cherry (and who isn't?!), Jasper is the one you've simply got to try! These ¾-inch diameter round red fruits arise in clusters of about a dozen all over vining, indeterminate (they keep producing all season long) plants. Very uniform in size, shape, and color, they look as good as they taste! Jasper is very resistant to both early and late blight, as well as to races 1 and 2 of fusarium wilt. This makes it possible to grow in gardens where other cherry tomatoes may have been unsuccessful. And it's one less concern for the gardener!And your harvest will never get out of hand with Jasper. The fruit holds on the vine very well, and also has a good shelf life after picking.

July 16, 2014	#15
AlittleSalt BANNED FOR LIFE Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 13,333	I am going to transplant 3 Jellybean tomato plants tomorrow. The description on the package of seeds say they are jellybean sized, so I'm guessing they are grape tomatoes? The plants have come up strong and healthy looking, so I'm hoping for the best. (I've never grown grape tomatoes before) As for cherry and smaller size tomatoes, I know that, "Porter" tomatoes are popular in the UK. Porter tomatoes were cultivated in Texas, USA for areas that get a lot of high temperature days in the summer months (100F/37C and higher). The fruit are golf ball sized and are a prolific producer of slightly more acidic tasting tomatoes. I have noticed that when the temperatures are above 95F/35C - the skins get a little bit thicker, but the tomatoes still have a uniform good taste. Porter tomatoes will come back as volunteers very easily the next growing season. I have seen them being sold as: Porter, Improved Porter, Porter's Pride, and Small Porter. I have bought all 4 varieties, and they all grow and produce the same. (3 years of growing). I've read online that there are differences, but I have not seen any differences. Porter tomatoes are something to grow that makes me feel proud because they always produce quantity and quality for a long growing time.