New SSE Yearbook Listing Requirements

[carolyn137]

These came in the mail today and now that I've simmered down I want to share with the many TVille SSE members who do not list in the Yearbooks as well as those who do and perhaps haven't gotten this brochure yet what some of the new requirements are. This includes current and Past SSE memebers as well

I'm just listing the ones I feel are most problematic, there were eight on the list

What should not be listed;

Crossed Seed. Utterly ridiculous to me since there are many listed members who grow out hundreds of plants and varieties each year and no way can they bag blossoms or isolate geographically.

I used to do that myself and of the many hundreds of new varieties I've listed over the years I know of less than10 that were crossed.

The Deadline for submitting listings for the 2014 Yearbook is Nov 1, and there are some of the folks who do seed production for me who are still doing fermentations.So there's no way to check out seeds before listing them unless someone wants to run a year behind, and I don't know of anyone who does that and I dont want to do it either , aka I can't do it.

Who is going to monitor if a person who requests seeds gets some crossed varieties? Will there be a notice in the Yearbook for a contact person at SSE to report to?

Unstable Varieties Should not be listed until they are grown out and stable, OR clearly state the variety is not stable.

No comment.

.

Do not offer varieties that you have not grown out yourself.

Well, that seems to eliminate me since I can't do that and haven't been growing out ALL the varieties I want to list since I had to start using this walker in Dec of 2004.

3/4 of thewonderful folks who do seed production for me have been listed SSE members for many years and the 4th person is very experienced and has been doing seed production for me fo rmany years.My job is to find the new seeds and I tell them what to expect from the seeds sent to me and if they aren't what they should be as grown by them,then they aren't listed OR offered here in my seed offers.

Do not list seeds from out crosses that have not been hand pollinated or grown in isolation

A problem for some but tomatoes are primarily inbreeders that show no to little inbreeding depression.

Do not guess at a variety name or rename a variety.

This has happened

I'd like some feedback here and then I'll e-mail Joanne at SSE, whom I've known since 1989 and tell her that it looks like the new requirements will not permit me to continue listing b/c I can't grow all the varieties myself,and see what she says to that.

They are also starting a new seed exchange, call it seed trading if you will, for SSE members and I read over all the rules and options for that, and was left somewha tpuzzled but I don't trade seeds with anyone for several reasons, so not a problem. If someone sends me seeds for a family heirloom and no seeds have been distributed than as thanks I do send the person some seeds.

I'd already asked the four folks who do seed production for me if they wanted to continue with me past the Jan 2014 seed offer here at TV, and all said yes. And Craig L, who raises some-plants for me and ships them up here also said he'd be glad to continue. But those are just a fraction of what the others are growing out for me. And Freda who does all my gardening for me has not been able to keep up

There won't be a huge number of new varieties in my 2014 seed offer b/c
of loss of plants due to bad weather. Just to reiterate, since 2004 I've tried to get seeds for varieties that will be new to all or most folks.

So, again, I'd like some feedback from both listed and unlisted SSE members, current and past, about these new requirements.

We SSE members, at least most of us, are NOT commercial in terms of producing pure seed but there are quite a few who list and some who don't list who are commercial.

Yes, it took me a while to calm down,but SSE has been an important part of my life since 1989 and I'm a long term Life member and over the years have made some wonderful friends.

Carolyn, who does recognize that she's in a rather different position than most SSE listed members since she can't grow all of her own vaieties by herself the past 8 years but it does impact 2/4 persons who do seed production for me in terms of SSE listing b/c I've told all 4 they can share seeds amongst themselves.

[Doug9345]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

What should not be listed;

Crossed Seed. I'd think this is or was common sense. Tomatoes and beans should be fine, but there is very little chance that squash is going to be true to type without some action to keep it from crossing.

Who is going to monitor if a person who requests seeds gets some crossed varieties? Will there be a notice in the Yearbook for a contact person at SSE to report to?
And how many people has to report before it becomes apparent that the seed is crossed. One person saying they got crossed seed may give you a heads up but there more than one way to goof a seed transaction up.

Unstable Varieties Should not be listed until they are grown out and stable, OR clearly state the variety is not stable.

No comment.

.

Do not offer varieties that you have not grown out yourself.

I read this as the same request that you put on you offer. Don't pass seed you got in a trade along until you have grown it and know what you have. I content that the seed that you offer is produced on your behalf. It's no different than you hiring people to do the individual steps using rented land. It's just in your case they happen to be spread out around the country.

Do not list seeds from out crosses that have not been hand pollinated or grown in isolation

Repeat of first rule.

Do not guess at a variety name or rename a variety.

This has happened

The hard case is where one buys a tomato then decides to save the seed because it is so great. Most likely it has a name so you are guessing at a name or renaming a variety or not saving seed from a tomato that may be unique. Guessing at a name is the worst of the choices. I'd much rather have one tomato with two different names than two tomatoes with the same name.

It looks like it is worded in what I call "Thou shalt not format" in instead of a "Thou should" format. The second one tends to be much less abrasive than the first.

"In the interest of preserving varieties as they are please be careful to only list seed that you are reasonable sure isn't crossed."

Sounds better than "If your seed is crossed don't list it."

The first one is asking for help the second one is giving orders.

[simmran1]

Re to Carolyn, and other SSE members of Tomatoville,

[Crossed Seed]

My interpretation is, if you know there has been cross-pollination and the variety is not true- then it should be labeled as the original variety.

[The Deadline for submitting listings for the 2014 Yearbook is Nov 1]

Yes, that’s a problem. I’d like to see this extended until at least Nov. 22nd.

So if contacting Joanne, please include IA SI R to the list of members wishing for an extension of this deadline.

[Do not offer varieties that you have not grown out yourself]

To me- that means purchasing from a retail vendor, and then offering in the Yearbook directly. And since USDA zone is a major requesting criteria (for me), if you are zone X and your comments and growth habit are all superlative(s), and you’re offering seeds of a variety- and I’m also in zone X - then I’m assuming I can grow this in mt season.

I actually thought part of your discussion would include changes at the yearbook ‘online’, because to me this change is controversial.

http://exchange.seedsavers.org/index.aspx -.

Where anyone with internet access can browse yearbook listings. Before (last week) I had to log-in before gaining access to any content of the Yearbook.

- IA SI R

[pondgardener]

Seems to me like SSE is trying to discourage potential new members from joining by making it more difficult for gardeners to list varieties that they grow. It would also seem to increase the likelihood of a grower to be deceitful as to the conditions that he or she grew a particular variety. So why the change and risk alienating a large number of their dedicated members? Are they trying to change one of their goals of keeping diversity in the hands of gardeners and seed savers?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by pondgardener

Seems to me like SSE is trying to discourage potential new members from joining by making it more difficult for gardeners to list varieties that they grow. It would also seem to increase the likelihood of a grower to be deceitful as to the conditions that he or she grew a particular variety. So why the change and risk alienating a large number of their dedicated members? Are they trying to change one of their goals of keeping diversity in the hands of gardeners and seed savers?

George, here's just one example of how certain members could be turned off.

Having to do with the YEarbook it says:

"What kind of seeds should be offered" and this is what it says:

Open Pollinated and heirloom seeds, stabilized crosses , or grexes.

GREXES?

Now I know that several hundreds of you already know what grexes are, but I didn't, so I Googled it and came up with the following definition:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/grexes

Those grexes will get you every time, and how many SSE members would know what a grex is, I ask you.

The primary mission of SSE has been to preserve OP varieties and the Yearbook was the mechanism devised to do so.

SSE members from the get go were not commercial folks, but folks with backyard gardens who wanted to help with that mission.

It looks to me as though SSE wants to ramp up their status and by that I mean try to compete with well known seed banks around the world such as Gatersleben in Germany, the Canadian Seed bank, the various seed banks in many countries, etc.

I was contacted by a nice young lady from SSE earlier this year who wanted me to participate in helping with background historical information about tomatoes, including my own. For every variety I had listed I gave all the information I had and told her so.

I then suggested she go to Tania's website for more information for other varieties. She didn't know about that site, even though Tania lists LOTS of varieties in the Yearbook. She thanked me and that was that.

Right now I can't think of one person at SSE who knows enough about tomatoes, for instance, to critique proposed listings but that's been true for a long time and it's one way that wrong info has gotten into the Yearbooks. I think the staff has been far too insular, and perhaps all the descriptor information asked for is to make an attempt at not being insular, but that also means that some of their staff have to get out there in the wide world and interact with other internet sites, and also local folks. The latter has been done to a limited extent, that I know, but I haven't heard more about it in a couple of years.

Carolyn

[travis]

Carolyn, you say that the SSE Yearbook staff solicits seeds from grexes, yet prohibits "unstable varieties" and "seeds from out crosses that have not been hand pollinated or grown in isolation?"

Sort of at cross purposes with their own "regulations" aren't they?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by travis

Carolyn, you say that the SSE Yearbook staff solicits seeds from grexes, yet prohibits "unstable varieties" and "seeds from out crosses that have not been hand pollinated or grown in isolation?"

Sort of at cross purposes with their own "regulations" aren't they?

Yes it is at cross purposes, but I don't think it's the YEARBOOK staff who had anything to do with that brochure.

If I had my Fall SSE heritage do dad in front of me, which I don't,I think it's perhaps coming from one of their newer hires.

Carolyn

[Doug9345]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

George, here's just one example of how certain members could be turned off.

Open Pollinated and heirloom seeds, stabilized crosses , or grexes.

GREXES?

Now I know that several hundreds of you already know what grexes are, but I didn't, so I Googled it and came up with the following definition:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/grexes

Those grexes will get you every time, and how many SSE members would know what a grex is, I ask you.

It's a good day when I learn a new word.

It looks to me as though SSE wants to ramp up their status and by that I mean try to compete with well known seed banks around the world such as Gatersleben in Germany, the Canadian Seed bank, the various seed banks in many countries, etc.


Carolyn

I think you may be on the right track there. The first word that came to my mind was elitist.

I'm pretty sure that you aren't on Facebook so I'll copy and paste what they posted earlier today. This fits with what you surmise

Seed Savers Exchange (official fb page)
Did you know we are one of the largest non-governmental seed banks with the goal of making varieties available to the public? That means, rather than locking up all of this diversity behind closed doors, we distribute it. Here at Seed Savers Exchange we grow, save, store and distribute seeds through our membership-based seed exchange to make varieties available to gardeners and seed savers around the world.

Is this a good or bad thing, only time will tell. I've felt that in the last couple of years they where struggling with what did they want to be.

P.S.

I can't get the text to not be bold after the quote nomatter what I do.

[amideutch]

All of the new listing requirements still fall on the honesty of the member with no way to verify what they list unless a member does list a variety which is a F3 and which are being sold now by a commercial vendor then the SSE can verify and do something about it assuming it ever happens.

[The Deadline for submitting listings for the 2014 Yearbook is Nov 1]

I don't see why the could not have two deadlines for submitting new listings.

1. For the printed SSE yearbook and folks updating their listings via the USPS which I believe is the reason for the 1 Nov deadline.

2. For the online listing updates which is done on the web I see no reason why you couldn't use a 22 Nov Deadline.

Ami

[travis]

If I were still a member, I'd not get all worked up about these new, unenforceable regulations. SSE has never been able to control any of these issues in the past, and I don't see how they can enforce these rules now. Just a lot of new hot air blown at the expense of more lost memberships.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by travis

If I were still a member, I'd not get all worked up about these new, unenforceable regulations. SSE has never been able to control any of these issues in the past, and I don't see how they can enforce these rules now. Just a lot of new hot air blown at the expense of more lost memberships.

I'm not all worked up Bill, I'm just ticked off b'c this kind of stuff, and I mean STUFF, seems to be accelerating with every passing year.

No, there's no way they can enforce it, you know it, I know it, lots who received this brochure know it, so why send out this info now?

I just looked at page 495 in the 2013 Yearbook and memberships having been going down roughly since 2008, or so. Total listings have stayed up but I think that's b'c there are a few listed members who list many hundreds, of lets say tomatoes, so a person requesting seeds can get many varieties from just that one person.

For 2013 I thought I'd try a wee experiment and offered 12-15 seeds for onedollar, and that b'c I think the suggested SSE request prices are far too high, and most of us are amateurs anyway, if you know what I mean.

Carolyn, who almost forgot to mention that it never occurred to her when it was said that varietis had to be grown by the individual that that could refer to purchased seeds.If that's what was meant then why say so.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by amideutch

All of the new listing requirements still fall on the honesty of the member with no way to verify what they list unless a member does list a variety which is a F3 and which are being sold now by a commercial vendor then the SSE can verify and do something about it assuming it ever happens.



I don't see why the could not have two deadlines for submitting new listings.

1. For the printed SSE yearbook and folks updating their listings via the USPS which I believe is the reason for the 1 Nov deadline.

2. For the online listing updates which is done on the web I see no reason why you couldn't use a 22 Nov Deadline.

Ami

Ami, the first couple of years the Online wa sup it was a mess and barely usable.

Three years ago, or so, Joanne asked me if I wanted my listings in the Online as well, I said sure, why not, the almost bigget mistake I've made to date re SSE.

With the online the person requesting seeds had to contact SSE for the contact info of the person(s) offering those seeds, or at least that's the way it was.

It was not a good experience for me at all, so Joanne suggested that I write in my contact blurb that I will only accept requests sent by mail with the appropriate year SSE form, and I did that.

Now here's where I may get some issues bassakwards.

Joanne said that all SSE Yearbook listings that aren't uploaded individually by the actual listers, are then uploaded by her and her staff. Or it could be the other way around. The point being that I think the due date for the YEarbook is tied into that in some way and perhaps it's YEarbook data that's wanted first for that reason.

I don't even go to the online so I have no idea what the last date to upload data and pictures to the online is, but I would guess the Online due date is after the Yearbook due date.

Well, I did try with this last bit of info but in the mean time perhaps some brain cells leaked out.

Carolyn

[travis]

Alternate (Travis's) definition of a pumpkin, squash, cucumber, or gourd grex: "A grouping of plants resulting from seed taken from a previous series of groupings of plants that were not hand pollinated and were not grown in isolation from one another."

Of course this could apply to corn (maize), carrots, greens, or even SSE fruits and nuts!

[Doug9345]

A thought just crossed my mind. Do they have college interns working there? A brochure is just the kind of project that would get assigned to one. Grexes is a word an intern would use in a general audience publication.

[travis]

Originally Posted by Doug9345

A thought just crossed my mind. Do they have college interns working there? A brochure is just the kind of project that would get assigned to one. Grexes is a word an intern would use in a general audience publication.

Grex, like landrace, is a term largely misused by either misinformed and/or hardheaded cult gardeners.