Water question: iron and suphur

tnpeppers · January 27, 2014

Quick question: I'm looking at the possibility of using some of my Earth Boxes on some nearby farming property, BUT the water source has a high iron and sulphur content (you know the drill...the water has a 'smell'). I would be watering straight from a hose...no filters. Would this affect the end product (my tomatoes)?

Doug9345 · January 27, 2014

It doesn't seem to affect mine. It just beats up watering equipment. Most of the sulfur leaves the water from just having it in a open container. Lots of people grown gardens in iron rich soil.

bower · January 27, 2014

This is a common problem in our area, and the trouble that comes from it here is that the water contributes to acidifying the soil, which is already acid. The pH of the raw unfarmed clay here was 4.0 before I started working it, and the climate and native vegetation also pushes everything towards acid soil conditions. Before I got a filter on my well, I actually saw the plants turning red from being watered with this well water - this has been especially noticeable with house plants as well.

If your soil is alkaline, there should be less of a problem. The solution if not is to add more lime. A few rain barrels would provide a less troublesome water source as well, so you can limit the effect if you start to notice plants with red leaves!

ScottinAtlanta · January 27, 2014

Don't forget that wood ashes have a strong liming effect. If you burn wood in winter, as I do, just sprinkle ashes over the top of your beds, and turn it under with a fork.

Doug9345 · January 27, 2014

It's funny. When we had a hot tub here I found out that the water ph was 7.8 and I was always fighting to lower the pH.

brokenbar · January 27, 2014

In Wyoming, it was the same...fossil fuels=mineral water. Luckily, Wyoming soil was very alkaline so with lots of aged manure, my plants thrived with no problems from the water whatsoever. We, on the other hand both had problems with kidney stones. Wyoming has one of the highest rates. We bought a "zero water" filtration system and de-mineralized everything we drank and Husband had no further kidney stones but I still do, probably because of the Lupus. And Doug is right...mineral water clogs up every pipe, drip emitter or sprayer you have.

Doug9345 · January 27, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by brokenbar

And Doug is right...mineral water clogs up every pipe, drip emitter or sprayer you have.

Not to mention water heater elements. I replaced them on a yearly basis.

brokenbar · January 27, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug9345

Not to mention water heater elements. I replaced them on a yearly basis.

Dishwasher, water heater, washing machine lines... Had we not left Wyoming, we were going to install one of those "No Rock Salt" water softener systems. It just gets so expensive replacing stuff all the time. We always had a 5 gallon container of water on top of our wood stove and what remained in it as the water evaporated was a real good look at what it left behind everywhere, including our bodies! YUCK! I really do recommend the Zero Water system. You just pour it in and it filters down and you can test it for solids and it is always zero after filtering. Reasonable filter replacement also.

KarenO · January 27, 2014

Hello,
the main problem you will have with watering with well water straight from a hose is that well water is usually very cold. This can have a negative effect on your plants, particularly tender and cold sensitive plants like tomatoes, eggplant, cucurbits etc And in fact you can actually kill young plants and seedlings quite easily by watering them with very cold water. Where I grew up on a farm we never watered with well water until it had sat in a barrel and warmed up first.
KarenO

drew51 · January 28, 2014

I have a cottage near Mt Clemons MI where they used to have sulfur baths. Not anymore. The baths were some what famous. One old building has a photo of Babe Ruth at the baths. Anyway our well water was just this, a sulfur rich brew! We didn't drink the water, so I went to the river with my water lines after a while and that was much better. We hauled drinking water in, as does everybody else. The place is on an island where cars are not allowed. It's like Mackinac Island except it's private. No public access. No stores. Now in the city we drink water from the Great Lakes, an it tastes great! It is very basic at 7.8. So I use rainwater. I even melt snow in the winter for house plants. I stored 40 gallons for winter use. Replenish with snow, but 40 gallons is about enough for my mostly dormant house plants. When forced to use tap water I neutralize with sulfuric acid. I grow blueberries, so it is a must.

tnpeppers · January 28, 2014

Thanks to everyone for their advice!

Urbanfarmer · February 2, 2014

It's surprisingly inexpensive to build your own R/O system that can produce 30-50 gals/hr. Our well water will plug kidneys and kill plants: it's extremely high in iron, chlorides, magnesium, calcium, and sodium. But our R/O barely registers on the meter. It's the only water we'll drink.

I guess it depends on your water needs and if you're willing to spend around $700. It's just a pump, motor, membrane, housing, filtration, and some valving. You need 30-60 psi going into it, and electricity.

But, generally speaking, some iron and sulfur shouldn't be a problem.

Doug9345 · February 3, 2014

Urbanfarmer do you do you have plans or more details on building one? I thought it would be harder than that.

Urbanfarmer · February 3, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug9345

Urbanfarmer do you do you have plans or more details on building one? I thought it would be harder than that.

If you're slightly mechanically able, it's easy. I don't have any plans, but I can steer you in a direction.

I use American RO for the Procon pump and motor. Talk to that guy to match the motor with the pump. I found a membrane elsewhere, but his prices on membranes aren't bad either. You could buy most everything from him, or you could scrounge around like I did on ebay. That's where I found the SS vessel and my pre-filter supplier.

My pre-filters are these:

-Big Blue (4"x20") whole house sediment, 20micron
-2.5" x 20" sediment, 10m
-2.5" x 20" sediment, 5m
-2.5" x 20" carbon, 10m

We need this amount of filtration to get the rust and sediment out to save the pump and membrane. Our well water is terrible.

Basically you come out of your filters to your pump. You have a switchbox for the motor to turn it on/off manually. The motor is slaved to a 40-60 pressure switch, so that when your tank is full it shuts off the motor.

From the pump you go into the membrane/housing. A pressure gauge is teed off that line. You have 2 outputs from the housing: one is the reject, which has a cheap gate valve on it. The other is your RO. You use the gate valve to create back pressure (180-225psi) on the membrane to force water through.

More sophisticated systems will recirculate some of the reject back through again to improve efficiency, but our system doesn't do that. It's very basic.

You should also have a low-pressure shutoff on the input before the pump, so that if incoming pressure drops it will shut off the motor and save the pump.

Everything is mounted on a wall, with tubing taking the RO where we want it, and the reject wherever you want it to go.

Sketch out a schematic to visualize where everything goes. From then on it's just putting the pieces together.

If you have enough incoming water you can double your membranes, but let American RO know so he gets the motor size right.

And that about does it. Good luck.........

Doug9345 · February 3, 2014

It doesn't sound a whole lot more complicated than any well system. How much water gets rejected compared to how much water the it produces?

January 27, 2014	#1
tnpeppers Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Zone 6 Posts: 365	Water question: iron and suphur Quick question: I'm looking at the possibility of using some of my Earth Boxes on some nearby farming property, BUT the water source has a high iron and sulphur content (you know the drill...the water has a 'smell'). I would be watering straight from a hose...no filters. Would this affect the end product (my tomatoes)?

January 27, 2014	#6
brokenbar Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: South Of The Border Posts: 1,169	In Wyoming, it was the same...fossil fuels=mineral water. Luckily, Wyoming soil was very alkaline so with lots of aged manure, my plants thrived with no problems from the water whatsoever. We, on the other hand both had problems with kidney stones. Wyoming has one of the highest rates. We bought a "zero water" filtration system and de-mineralized everything we drank and Husband had no further kidney stones but I still do, probably because of the Lupus. And Doug is right...mineral water clogs up every pipe, drip emitter or sprayer you have. __________________ "If I'm not getting dirty, I'm not having a good time."

February 2, 2014	#12
Urbanfarmer Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Freeport, Texas Posts: 134	It's surprisingly inexpensive to build your own R/O system that can produce 30-50 gals/hr. Our well water will plug kidneys and kill plants: it's extremely high in iron, chlorides, magnesium, calcium, and sodium. But our R/O barely registers on the meter. It's the only water we'll drink. I guess it depends on your water needs and if you're willing to spend around $700. It's just a pump, motor, membrane, housing, filtration, and some valving. You need 30-60 psi going into it, and electricity. But, generally speaking, some iron and sulfur shouldn't be a problem. __________________ theurbanfarm.com

January 27, 2014	#2
Doug9345 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Durhamville,NY Posts: 2,706	It doesn't seem to affect mine. It just beats up watering equipment. Most of the sulfur leaves the water from just having it in a open container. Lots of people grown gardens in iron rich soil.

January 27, 2014	#3
bower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 6,794	This is a common problem in our area, and the trouble that comes from it here is that the water contributes to acidifying the soil, which is already acid. The pH of the raw unfarmed clay here was 4.0 before I started working it, and the climate and native vegetation also pushes everything towards acid soil conditions. Before I got a filter on my well, I actually saw the plants turning red from being watered with this well water - this has been especially noticeable with house plants as well. If your soil is alkaline, there should be less of a problem. The solution if not is to add more lime. A few rain barrels would provide a less troublesome water source as well, so you can limit the effect if you start to notice plants with red leaves!

January 27, 2014	#4
ScottinAtlanta Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 2,593	Don't forget that wood ashes have a strong liming effect. If you burn wood in winter, as I do, just sprinkle ashes over the top of your beds, and turn it under with a fork.

January 27, 2014	#9
KarenO Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Vancouver Island Posts: 5,931	Hello, the main problem you will have with watering with well water straight from a hose is that well water is usually very cold. This can have a negative effect on your plants, particularly tender and cold sensitive plants like tomatoes, eggplant, cucurbits etc And in fact you can actually kill young plants and seedlings quite easily by watering them with very cold water. Where I grew up on a farm we never watered with well water until it had sat in a barrel and warmed up first. KarenO

January 28, 2014	#10
drew51 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Sterling Heights, MI Zone 6a/5b Posts: 1,302	I have a cottage near Mt Clemons MI where they used to have sulfur baths. Not anymore. The baths were some what famous. One old building has a photo of Babe Ruth at the baths. Anyway our well water was just this, a sulfur rich brew! We didn't drink the water, so I went to the river with my water lines after a while and that was much better. We hauled drinking water in, as does everybody else. The place is on an island where cars are not allowed. It's like Mackinac Island except it's private. No public access. No stores. Now in the city we drink water from the Great Lakes, an it tastes great! It is very basic at 7.8. So I use rainwater. I even melt snow in the winter for house plants. I stored 40 gallons for winter use. Replenish with snow, but 40 gallons is about enough for my mostly dormant house plants. When forced to use tap water I neutralize with sulfuric acid. I grow blueberries, so it is a must.

February 3, 2014	#13
Doug9345 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Durhamville,NY Posts: 2,706	Urbanfarmer do you do you have plans or more details on building one? I thought it would be harder than that.