A different way of staking

Labradors2 · February 8, 2014

I was just watching "In the Garden" with Bryce Lane http://www.unctv.org/content/inthegarden

We were shown an interesting way of supporting tomatoes which was to take some wire mesh (with a fairly close weave) and arrange it like a shelving unit, supported by 4 posts. The plants grow up through the wire "shelves" and their tomatoes are supported by them! No tying involved!

Linda

Worth1 · February 8, 2014

I dont get it.
Are they shelves that are completely horizontal?
I clicked on the link and didn't get anything out of it as far as a picture and we dont get that channel.

Worth

Labradors2 · February 8, 2014

Oh that's a pity Worth. I thought that people would be able to watch the program from the link that I gave.

Yes, the shelves are completely horizontal and about two feet apart. The guy who came up with the idea claimed that the plants grow right through the "shelves" and the tomatoes just lie on the shelves for him to pick!

Linda

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worth1

I dont get it.
Are they shelves that are completely horizontal?
I clicked on the link and didn't get anything out of it as far as a picture and we dont get that channel.

Worth

Worth1 · February 8, 2014

I can see programs but I dont know which one to watch is there a number or date?

I'm always up for a way to support tomatoes.

Worth

Worth1 · February 8, 2014

Ok I'm an idoit it was the big picture on the link right in front of me.

I will have to watch it in a bit, mystery diner is on the food network right now.

Worth

madddawg · February 8, 2014

I think the one you was seeing Worth was not the right one, I am browseing thru them now to see if i can locate it...

Found it

http://video.unctv.org/video/2365123333/
16min 34 seconds in

greenthumbomaha · February 10, 2014

Linda, I've never seen anything like that either. What a fabulous idea. It would be great if he could post a follow up with the tomatoes on the shelves so we could see spacing between plants using th. We'll have to experiment ourselves. Thanks for sharing!

- Lisa

Ken4230 · February 10, 2014

In 1972, at my old garden, i had two tomato structures something like this. Mine were built like two back to back park benches with "seats" that folded up and down.
Two 4x4 posts were set 8' apart and the "seats" (2'x8') were bolted to the posts and would fold down into a very shallow vee. I used 1x4's for slats on the "seats"
Cardboard was tacked to the slats and in between the "seats" to keep the tomato branches in place. Being able to fold up is important because it's easier to plant the tomatoes.
I put 4 Rutgers tomatoes between each set of posts and had room for maybe one more. There were lots of tomatoes, but they seemed to be smaller than normal.

A couple of friends built them (I supervised and supplied the refreshments) while i was recovering from a motorcycle wreck. They are perfect for bad backs.
They even brought me an old stainless double utility sink to grow my lettuce and green onions in. It cost me some more beer.

Now that i am retired, the garden at our new place is being expanded and i have a material list already drawn up for 3 of them.

Ken

b54red · February 10, 2014

I actually used that type structure for a couple of years since it eliminated all that tying up involved with stakes. It worked really great the first year but the second year my plants developed too much foliage and diseases and pests were awful. The other big problem I had was cleaning the whole thing up when the season was finished. I had them in three raised beds so I had just under a 100 ft of double shelving to clean the vines off of and take down. I used a 2X4 in. fence wire but I would recommend using a larger mesh that you can stick your hand through for ease of picking fruit. You will find that a lot of the tomatoes will be hanging just under the shelving wire so don't make it too wide so you can reach the center easily. I had a lot of tomatoes grow into the mesh so they were unusable when pried loose they burst. I think a much larger mesh would support just as well and be easier to clean up.

If you decide to use this method make sure you do some pruning if you have a long season or you will have a huge mass of foliage to deal with. I found it very difficult to get good spray coverage but I really liked not having to do much work once the vines were growing on the shelves. However you construct it make sure it will support a lot of weight.

Bill

amideutch · February 10, 2014

Horizontal trellising for tomatoes is not new. Basically your letting yor tomato vines sprawl on trellises rather than the ground and in this case at different levels. It takes up more room as in this case your using indeterminate varieties. But if you are growing one or two plants in a small area or balcony it might be just what the doctor ordered.

Ami

ScottinAtlanta · February 10, 2014

Staking is the single biggest problem for my garden that I have not solved. I actually used a nearby dogwood tree to support the biggest vines - Bear Creek and Super Sioux and KBX, for example - and the whole tree toppled over after a rain!

There are dozens of ideas on the Forum - I wonder if a system of categorizing and assessing them for different sizes of gardens and constraints, including cost, would be helpful to others? I still have not decided what to do in 2014, although I am leaning toward a rebar structure.

b54red · February 11, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottinAtlanta

Staking is the single biggest problem for my garden that I have not solved. I actually used a nearby dogwood tree to support the biggest vines - Bear Creek and Super Sioux and KBX, for example - and the whole tree toppled over after a rain!

There are dozens of ideas on the Forum - I wonder if a system of categorizing and assessing them for different sizes of gardens and constraints, including cost, would be helpful to others? I still have not decided what to do in 2014, although I am leaning toward a rebar structure.

Scott after nearly 40 years growing tomatoes I think I have tried just about every form of tomato support and they all have their pros and cons. Down here with our high humidity and disease problems I have found that some form of trellis is the most versatile and also the strongest if constructed well, while at the same time allowing good air flow and sunlight to the foliage. I find the metal conduit to be the cheapest and easiest to work with that has the strength to support large heavy tomato vines. Even though it takes some work tying the plants up it is easier than dealing with long sections of fencing. Since I plant in 4 ft wide beds I use a double row of trellises and connect the two rows with shorter pieces of conduit then use cheap zip ties from Harbor Freight to hold everything together. I do not drive my vertical bars deeply into the ground but rather use some support pieces driven in with the verticals tied to them securely. I have never had one collapse or get blown over since using this system. It doesn't take too long to disassemble in the fall and it isn't too hard to construct in the spring. I sometimes leave them up all winter but it is more difficult working around them and the zip ties start deteriorating and need replacing so I just redo them each year. The conduit lasts well over 10 years for me so I buy a few pieces every few years to replace some that are starting to get too much rust on them and use them for the angle supports which do not last as long since they are driven into the ground fairly deeply and tend to rust faster. If you need more info on this PM me and I can further explain the details.

Good luck with whatever method you decide on.

Bill

Worth1 · February 10, 2014

What we need it a good cheap Chinese made tomato cage.

I can make a cheap tall cage that will fold and last for around 5 or 6 dollars I know no more than 10 a cage.
They would also look pretty.

The problem is you have to have equipment to do it, many people dont have this stuff.

Worth

madddawg · February 10, 2014

I have a bunch of concrete reinforcement wire that I used for a tomato fence, two fences side by side about a foot apart. It worked to some extent but the plants still fell down sideways and I would have to tie them up anyway. I think I will try this method this year with some of determinants. but I wounder if these squares will be too big? I was going to cut them up for cages, but cages can be high kind of a pain.

And on that note if anyone does use this stuff for cages? This is how I make them.
Count out 8 squares and snip it right next to the vertical wire.

and bend a hook on the end using a small socket on an extension

And you get this.

then in the off season you can unhook them and lay them somewhat flat, or wrap them around each other and get 4 or 5 inside one

Worth1 · February 10, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by madddawg

I have a bunch of concrete reinforcement wire that I used for a tomato fence, two fences side by side about a foot apart. It worked to some extent but the plants still fell down sideways and I would have to tie them up anyway. I think I will try this method this year with some of determinants. but I wounder if these squares will be too big? I was going to cut them up for cages, but cages can be high kind of a pain.

And on that note if anyone does use this stuff for cages? This is how I make them.
Count out 8 squares and snip it right next to the vertical wire.

and bend a hook on the end using a small socket on an extension

And you get this.

then in the off season you can unhook them and lay them somewhat flat, or wrap them around each other and get 4 or 5 inside one

There are a lot of folks here that use it and there are many posts on the subject.
Pros, somewhat inexpensive and the mesh is the right size.
Cons, not tall enough and it rusts.
Me, I dont use it and on the fence, I dont care what people use.

Madddawg you are in masonry and you are using what you have access to.
I used to work in a cabinet shop.
I had an endless supply of BBQ wood.

Oak Ash Maple Alder Cherry you name it.

Worth

February 8, 2014	#1
Labradors2 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Ontario Posts: 3,896	A different way of staking I was just watching "In the Garden" with Bryce Lane http://www.unctv.org/content/inthegarden We were shown an interesting way of supporting tomatoes which was to take some wire mesh (with a fairly close weave) and arrange it like a shelving unit, supported by 4 posts. The plants grow up through the wire "shelves" and their tomatoes are supported by them! No tying involved! Linda

February 8, 2014	#6
madddawg Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Missouri Posts: 407	I think the one you was seeing Worth was not the right one, I am browseing thru them now to see if i can locate it... Found it http://video.unctv.org/video/2365123333/ 16min 34 seconds in __________________ I grow a garden not just for the food I harvest, but for the creation of life itself. Johnny Cash Last edited by madddawg; February 8, 2014 at 02:56 PM.

February 10, 2014	#10
amideutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E Posts: 5,041	Horizontal trellising for tomatoes is not new. Basically your letting yor tomato vines sprawl on trellises rather than the ground and in this case at different levels. It takes up more room as in this case your using indeterminate varieties. But if you are growing one or two plants in a small area or balcony it might be just what the doctor ordered. Ami __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!'

February 10, 2014	#14
madddawg Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Missouri Posts: 407	I have a bunch of concrete reinforcement wire that I used for a tomato fence, two fences side by side about a foot apart. It worked to some extent but the plants still fell down sideways and I would have to tie them up anyway. I think I will try this method this year with some of determinants. but I wounder if these squares will be too big? I was going to cut them up for cages, but cages can be high kind of a pain. And on that note if anyone does use this stuff for cages? This is how I make them. Count out 8 squares and snip it right next to the vertical wire. and bend a hook on the end using a small socket on an extension And you get this. then in the off season you can unhook them and lay them somewhat flat, or wrap them around each other and get 4 or 5 inside one __________________ I grow a garden not just for the food I harvest, but for the creation of life itself. Johnny Cash

February 8, 2014	#2
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	I dont get it. Are they shelves that are completely horizontal? I clicked on the link and didn't get anything out of it as far as a picture and we dont get that channel. Worth

February 10, 2014	#7
greenthumbomaha Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Omaha Zone 5 Posts: 2,514	Linda, I've never seen anything like that either. What a fabulous idea. It would be great if he could post a follow up with the tomatoes on the shelves so we could see spacing between plants using th. We'll have to experiment ourselves. Thanks for sharing! - Lisa

February 10, 2014	#8
Ken4230 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Western Ky Posts: 282	In 1972, at my old garden, i had two tomato structures something like this. Mine were built like two back to back park benches with "seats" that folded up and down. Two 4x4 posts were set 8' apart and the "seats" (2'x8') were bolted to the posts and would fold down into a very shallow vee. I used 1x4's for slats on the "seats" Cardboard was tacked to the slats and in between the "seats" to keep the tomato branches in place. Being able to fold up is important because it's easier to plant the tomatoes. I put 4 Rutgers tomatoes between each set of posts and had room for maybe one more. There were lots of tomatoes, but they seemed to be smaller than normal. A couple of friends built them (I supervised and supplied the refreshments) while i was recovering from a motorcycle wreck. They are perfect for bad backs. They even brought me an old stainless double utility sink to grow my lettuce and green onions in. It cost me some more beer. Now that i am retired, the garden at our new place is being expanded and i have a material list already drawn up for 3 of them. Ken

February 10, 2014	#9
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	I actually used that type structure for a couple of years since it eliminated all that tying up involved with stakes. It worked really great the first year but the second year my plants developed too much foliage and diseases and pests were awful. The other big problem I had was cleaning the whole thing up when the season was finished. I had them in three raised beds so I had just under a 100 ft of double shelving to clean the vines off of and take down. I used a 2X4 in. fence wire but I would recommend using a larger mesh that you can stick your hand through for ease of picking fruit. You will find that a lot of the tomatoes will be hanging just under the shelving wire so don't make it too wide so you can reach the center easily. I had a lot of tomatoes grow into the mesh so they were unusable when pried loose they burst. I think a much larger mesh would support just as well and be easier to clean up. If you decide to use this method make sure you do some pruning if you have a long season or you will have a huge mass of foliage to deal with. I found it very difficult to get good spray coverage but I really liked not having to do much work once the vines were growing on the shelves. However you construct it make sure it will support a lot of weight. Bill

February 10, 2014	#11
ScottinAtlanta Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 2,593	Staking is the single biggest problem for my garden that I have not solved. I actually used a nearby dogwood tree to support the biggest vines - Bear Creek and Super Sioux and KBX, for example - and the whole tree toppled over after a rain! There are dozens of ideas on the Forum - I wonder if a system of categorizing and assessing them for different sizes of gardens and constraints, including cost, would be helpful to others? I still have not decided what to do in 2014, although I am leaning toward a rebar structure.