Your thoughts on Compost Tea (CT) at transplant

[z_willus_d]

For a while now, I've been following in the steps of Ami and others through advice on how one can perform a root-ball drench at plant-out within a solution of beneficial bacteria products, such as MycroGrow Soluble, BiotaMax, and/or Actinovate to name a few. At the same time, I've been experimenting with producing Compost Tea using various high quality composts and other additives such as brewers yeast, brix or Beet molasses, humic acid, etc.

Recently, I've been bridging the two practices, so a day or two before transplant time, I will grab a few of those beneficial bacteria products I mentioned and mix them up in 3.5-gal of water within a 5-gal container. I drop in several air stones, some nutrients and let 'em rip. The product should be a very active microbial stew with hopefully a nice mix of "good guys." Though in practice, I suspect that some fellows may be out performing their peers and so I may not get all the different types of good bacteria from the product, but perhaps rather some subset in much larger quantities. I'm not sure if this is a good or bad trade-off I'm making, if I might be far better off just using the raw products and letting them sort themselves out in the soil, if I might be cultivating a few good bacteria in droves at the expense of many additional less competitive good bacteria, etc. etc.

So has anyone else thought about this? Has anyone tried it? Does anyone have some good science to throw at the question?

Thanks for your consideration.
-naysen

[bughunter99]

I've never tried it but will be interested to hear your results.

My process is to toss a handful of good homemade compost, worms and all into each hole and gently incorporate it with some of the soil before planting with a couple of granules of calcium. Then they get a drink of half strength Neptunes gold. Anything too fussy more than my crazy schedule can handle, but I love to read about others experiments and the ones with clear benefits demonstrated usually will see the lazy woman's version tried out in my garden the next year.

Stacy

[OldHondaNut]

Wish I could help. As far as the title question, spray CT at transplant, I would agree with that cause you are helping the soil and that can take time.

I just use what ever compost I have and put it in a 5 gallon buck and bubble it with an$8 battery powered fishing air machine for a day. Don't know about all those other things you are talking about but this works for me. Have not tried molasses but that would be as far as I would want to go cause I want it to be as natural a processes as I can get.

Wish I could help more. CT is the right direction we need to take and I look forward to your results.

[Redbaron]

I do about the same thing but all at once. I also start my compost tea the same day I transplant.

Here is what I do.
mix my brew with various compost tea, molasses, fish emulsion etc.
dig my holes for transplanting
add my soluble microbial mix to the brew
fill the holes with my brew
drop the seedlings in the water in the holes
fill around the seedlings with a blend of compost and organic ferts mixed with soil
Drench a bit of more brew to settle the soil around the roots
cover with mulch
water the whole thing in after all the seedlings are finished.

I rarely get any transplant shock at all using this method. I also have most all the microbials ferts and compost around the root ball that I will use the entire year all done at once. Big time saver.

It seems to work for me. By combining all the steps into the same time at plant out I probably 1/2 my total man hours spent, and I personally have seen no reduction in results compared to doing everything separately.

[mensplace]

You folks have inspired me to go out and add my own brand of compost tea. I made many a case of fine Porter, Russian Imperial Ale, and Belgian Ale a couple of years ago that should be fully matured by now. Considering the sugars, vitamins and minerals and that I don't drink or eat much at all with sugar now, I think each of my plants would benefit hugely through the liberal use of a few bottles about 9 inches around the base of my plants. Too, this way I don't have to worry about eColi.

[creister]

Naysen,

I use ami's dip method, then just water in each plant with a good dose of compost tea. I have never used the tea as part of the drench, but have had no issues dip, plant, and water in with the tea.

[z_willus_d]

Hi Scott, thanks for posting your process. The key takeaway that I get from what you wrote on what you're doing vs. what I have been is that you're not starting the CT with the various microbial products but rather adding them to the tea at the end. You're also adding in a bunch of compost, castings, and other goodies in the transplant hole, which is something I've generally done regardless of tea or root-ball drenching, although lately I tend to just mix all those goodies into the soil before planting rather than concentrate them in the hole because (i.) it's easier on my back that way; and (ii) I think it might be better to for the plants in the long run as there roots expand and branch out through out the grow medium.

But back to the key difference, I think one of us is doing it right. They idea I had with starting my CT w/out compost but using those micro products was that I thought I could multiply the good bacteria (less so fungi) from the expensive products and get more bang for my baggie, but as I wrote, I was concerned I might select for one or a few micro-organisms over the larger available population, and that had the product been mixed with water (or finished CT as in your case) and applied to the soil at transplant time, it might have given all the organisms in the product a equal playing field (nature) or better chance to survive for my environment. So which approach is better, that's the real crux of my OP's question.

Creister, your take on the ordering of applications seems like another reasonable option, where you're trying to maximize the product in the root-ball drench, but then add the CT after for a general culture on the bedding.

mansp- I'm not so sure about that, and in any event feel free to ship any expired bottles of your "brew" my way, and I'll be happy to test them out after a long day's work filling my latest raised bed. The plants don't deserve such service!

Old Honda, I think you need to be careful about the "as natural a processes as I can get..." part of your CT adventures. One of the very natural things that happens to a bucket of compost covered in water with little aeration and little nutrient is that it can become a thick sludge and then a thick anaerobic sludge, and it will stink and you'll know it. I just went way overkill with my 6 blubbers, since as far as I know you can't give the stuff too much air. I will say that I do have some issues with the brew "boiling" over the top of my 5-gal bucket, even if I only fill it half way. I just put the bucket on the tray and pour the contents back in after the brew has settled down. I've been happy that my tea smells almost drinkable top to bottom using this method vs. when I was brewing large 35-gal batches in my 50-gal brewer, I would see some areas where the sludge had built up that would begin to take on the stench of anaerobes.

Thanks all for the replies. I hope someone more knowledgeable in CT will chime in (maybe Elaine will drop-in... has she ever?)

-naysen

[z_willus_d]

Oh, "talking" of Elaine and CT, I just saw this post she gave on the CT yahoo group. I thought, way not re-post here. It's a bit off topic, but has some interesting points on vermi-composting and the worms, both of which I'm very keen on.

I remember a class in medical school that taught that doctors should never admit that there was so much we didn't know. To admit a lack of all-knowing wisdom, doctors would undermine people's belief and trust in the medical profession. That was about the time I decided that medical school wasn't for me, because I cannot abide that attitude, especially when there was, and is, so much we didn't know.

I suspect that "doctor-as-god" attitude spread to science in general, and the attitude that "science has already figured everything out" has been made common. I know students in my classes at University are often shocked when they discover how little we actually know. In fact, we know less than probably 1% about any field of endeavor. We have only just begun to figure things out. There is so much more to know! So, please don't fall for the attitude that that scientists "know-it-all". There is so much that you can contribute to expanding the knowledge base of the human race.

When dealing with biology, part of the joy --- and aggravation --- is that within a population of individuals of a single species there is a range of response to any environmental factor. Think of humans....some of us like cold weather, some like hot, etc. All species have a range of tolerance for any particular factor. Multiply that by all the different factors that organisms can respond to, and it gets very complex. Worms that don't like a particular condition leave or die; the ones that like the conditions, live, grow, reproduce. A demonstration of selection happening.

If conditions change and move outside the tolerance of all members of the species, then the individuals - 1. die, 2. become dormant (if the species has a dormant stage it can go into, e.g., eggs, spores), or 3. leave the area. Worms are very capable of leaving to find someplace they consider better.

"Compost" worms live in materials that are basically decomposing organic matter, they don't particularly like soil. We do not know why they are like that, but they are. If organic matter gets used up, the worms go elsewhere. I know others on this forum have said that their worms will not re-process worm cast, but my worms re-process their cast all the time. Only if the cast gets waterlogged will the worms not re-use the cast. It is not the cast they object to, but the anaerobic condition they cannot tolerate. Maybe there are other conditions that make the cast un-acceptable, but the conclusion that worms cannot re-use their own cast is NOT the correct conclusion.

Worms eat bacteria, fungi, protozoa, nematodes, etc. Why would they not re-process their own cast? Only if something else went terribly wrong with the material, thus making their cast something they could not use. In fact, I often forget to feed my worms any new organic matter for weeks, and my worms do just fine re-processing the material in the bin. If anything, I think the cast just gets better and better, but that's just an observation, I haven't made a study of it...... yet.

Soil worms live in a combination of organic matter and sand, silt and clay. Many species of soil worms pull organic matter into their burrows, lining the burrow with organic matter. The worms consume the microorganisms that grow on the dead plant material. So they really do live in mostly organic matter, just organic matter arranged the way they want it, in a very light organic matter layer on the surface of the burrow. Just a variation on the "compost worm" environment.

We know worms are strict aerobes. They must have air to breathe in order to continue to live. Consider that humans are strict aerobes. We must have air to continue to exist.......but there are conditions where humans manage to tolerate some not-so-perfect conditions for short periods of time. NYC for example ...... yep, we can tolerate that less-than-wonderful condition, for a limited period. So can worms.

When compost piles become waterlogged and oxygen starts getting limited, the worms begin to move away from the low oxygen conditions, because they don't want to die or go dormant. Often the movement is upward in the soil, or in the pile. We thus can find worms in less than ideal condition --- sometimes whole "herds" of them, because the whole population is trying to escape poor conditions. This does not make the low oxygen condition acceptable for worms.

Do species of earthworms live together? Sure they do.... read Charles Darwin's work on worms. Do worm species compete? Do individuals within a population compete? Yes. Ah, the wonderful complexity of life. I don't know why some people say that there should be only one species of worm in a worm pile. I would think, given the broad variation in conditions in a pile of organic matter, that a mix of species would do better. However, that awaits someone to do the work in a consistent, controlled manner. Some observations say better with a mix of species, others say, better with one species. But....... they did not pay attention to the conditions of the pile. Perhaps their conclusions are flawed because of the incomplete conditions in the experiments.

How can interactions of individuals, species, and environmental conditions get figured out for each species of earthworm? Observation. Observe, record, run some simple experiments. Publish. Contribute to our knowledge base. You don't need a doctorate to do observation or experiments. .

Would it be nice if science had already figured all this out? Well, maybe, but then life would be boring. As occupants of this spaceship Earth, we can, and should, read what others before us have observed and figured out -- not the best use of our time to re-invent the wheel. It may be frustrating to not be handed what we want to know on a silver platter, but when we reach the edge of the knowledge base, take the challenge on as your chance to help those who come after you. Observe, record, figure it out, publish. There is so much more to know.....

Between worm composting, thermal composting and static composting, we have the tools to rapidly cycle wastes back into materials that can grow healthy plants. Even anaerobic waste digestors can play a role, as long as people understand that only half of the material going into a anaerobic waste digestor is digested, leaving a massive amount of toxic waste to deal with. That waste has to be properly treated by aerobic composting. This is do-able, and in fact must be done, in order to allow humans to continue to live on this planet.


Elaine R. Ingham
President, Soil Foodweb Inc. Soil Life Consultant
Since I travel a great deal, please consider that I may miss e-mails so if I don't answer within 3 days, please try again.

[HydroExplorer]

I had a worm farm and used a worm tea folear feed for my transplants. When I do a folear feed I always spray the underside of the leaves first and then the rest of the plant. I was told that spraying the undersides of the leaves first improves the absorption of the spray and I believe that is correct.

I didn't do a controlled experiment (I sprayed all my plants) but I feel like doing a foliar feed using straight worm tea really helped the plants.

I've also tried brewing modified worm teas and using them for hydroponics. I had mixed results. I went WAY too long between water changes but I did get fruit. When I say I used modified tea, I mean I was adding fish emulsion, superphosphate, epsom salt, calcium carbonate and molasis to add some other things for the plants. I really didn't know what I was doing but it kinda worked.

I'm not sure how watering with worm tea would help things. Theoretically it should help make nutrients available to the plants by adding soil bacteria.


I think my worms died last winter so I have to get that set up again. My mother in law didn't like the worms living in my office so she moved my worm farm to the basement. That broke my routine and I forgot to feed them for several months. Then I think the cold of winter might have finished them off.

[Cole_Robbie]

Water pumps do a better job of aerating than air pumps. Make the water pump into a manifold of pvc above the solution, and then spray back down into it. Obviously you will have to screen everything well to keep it from clogging. I am going to start my own CT experiments in a few days when my weather warms up. I have some very old cow manure that I think will make great tea.

[OldHondaNut]

I had no problems with the Academy fishing pump. You can tell by the smell, I totally agree. It was so convenient, the pump came with a clip for a 5 gallon bucket cause that is how fishermen use it.

[z_willus_d]

I'll have to look into the water pump idea when I get back to brewing very large batches of CT in my 50-gal "tank." For now, the six air rock bubblers seem to be more than sufficient for a 5-gal bucket. They're coupled with an external air pump that is fairly large.
-naysen

[HydroExplorer]

I use airstones for my brews and haven't had any problems. I use 4" airstones from a hydroponics store and I use aquarium air pumps for larger aquariums.

I agree that you won't get enough air if you just use an air pump for a small aquarium but I feel like I get plenty of dissolved oxygen for brewed teas with a 4" stone.

That said, I've never built an air jet like you have in a hot tub. Perhaps the results I consider good pale in comparison.

[Cole_Robbie]

Air pumps still work for aeration, it's just that most people misunderstand how they work. The bubbles that we see in the water work because they move the water, turning it over as they rise. The surface tension of the water keeps it from being able to absorb oxygen from the bubbles directly, or at least very much. To be fully correct, there is a tiny bit of bubble-to-water oxygenation as the bubble rises, but it is very small, and limited to the surface area of the bubble. Changing the surface area of the water and exposing new water to air is how oxygenation takes place. Air pumps work to aerate by moving water with air. That's why I think it's better to use a water pump, since the point is to move water.

[z_willus_d]

Cole, que va?!? If I understand what you are saying correctly, it's that the amount of aeration is directly correlated to the water to air interface surface area. Since that is limited by the area of the circle of our 5-gal buckets, it seems as though we could greatly increase the interface area by inundating the liquid with hundreds of bubbles of varying size. Thus, for the period of time in which the bubbles are suspended and rising to the surface, the water is seeing that air interface, and the total area of interface would be much greater than that achievable by the circle surface area alone.

Isn't that the premise of the bubbles when used in fish tanks to slowly aerate and maintain a certain O2 level in the medium for the fish to survive?