What is your frost management plan?

creister · May 23, 2014

With all of the crazy weather, particularly later than normal frosts, what do you all do to protect in ground plants?

I wrap all cages with medium weight row cover, including the top. If I have leaves, I will surround the bottom of the outside of the wrapped cage with them.

Works okay, but was wondering if there is something better. What thickness of plastic do you use?

Stvrob · May 23, 2014

I have no frost plan. If it freezes now, I'll just give up till next year

KarenO · May 23, 2014

average frost dates are only averages. Watching the weather and long range forecasts and waiting to plant out until it is safe is the best frost management strategy. Getting a jump on the season is nice but the risk may not be worth it.
For a surprise late spring or early frost, cloth is your best protection. thicker the better. Moving blankets are perfect but flannel sheets, blankets, towels whatever you can get hold (I have emptied my linen closet completely on occasion) draped over cages/stakes. Tarps work for larger areas but plastic is not much use at all and the fleecy row cover stuff will only protect to just freezing whereas a blanket will give you several degrees of frost protection.
In spring, the best bet is to wait to plant out until not only is there essentially no risk of frost but the ground is thoroughly warm as well. Patience is rewarded hard as it is to wait sometimes.
KarenO from the frozen north

joseph · May 23, 2014

My frost management plan is to not put sensitive plants in the ground until it is very unlikely that they will get frozen. For example, my normal tomato planting date is two weeks after our average last frost date... And then, only if conditions look favorable at that time.

I might put some sacrificial plants in the ground before then. But they are always expendable. If they make it, great. If they fail, no big deal.

In my ideal world, something like 50% of the tomatoes would get killed by frost each year. Because I save my own seeds that would select for more frost/cold tolerant plants for next year.

I was so proud of one okra plant from my okra breeding project, because it survived the first fall frost. Yay!!! But it didn't survive the second fall frost the next night. Boo Hoo! I still saved the seeds from that plant. It had a hint more frost tolerance than the general population, so it's worth re-planting.

**carolyn137** · May 23, 2014

My frost management plan is to NEVER plant out until at least two weeks after the last average frost date,which doesn't always work, but usually does, and then hope for better weather.

Carolyn

feldon30 · May 23, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarenO

average frost dates are only averages. Watching the weather and long range forecasts and waiting to plant out until it is safe is the best frost management strategy.

Great advice for 90% of the US, but this doesn't work in most parts of Texas. If you wait until late April to plant, you will get zero tomatoes of anything but small heat setting varieties and cherries.

Quote:

Originally Posted by creister

I wrap all cages with medium weight row cover, including the top. If I have leaves, I will surround the bottom of the outside of the wrapped cage with them. Works okay, but was wondering if there is something better.

I think that is the absolute best practice for Central and S.E. Texas. Labor intensive, but totally worth it.

As for why planting early works in Texas and other Gulf states and not in the Northern and Eastern US? Soil temperature. Soil temps never really get below 50°F and quickly warm up in the spring. Early plants take off like a rocket, they just need occasional protection.

Jet Star planted - Mar 14

First Jet Star fruitset - April 5

First Jet Star ripe fruit - May 7

54 days to ripe fruit, for a 72 day variety. Texas, it's like a whole other country.

Dewayne mater · May 23, 2014

I do the same as you, Creister. However, if it is going to be below 28, I'll pull my tainers into the garage. I have also created a small greenhouse by laying tomato cages on their side and stretching a heavy plastic material over the whole area, which hold in place with bricks. That method seems to trap more heat in the event of an unexpected late hard freeze.

Dewayne mater

May 23, 2014

I keep containers of various sizes on hand. I pile oak leaves over each plant as insulation and then place a container or bucket over each. I try to make sure the plant is not touching the plastic container anywhere because every place it touches will be frozen.

If we get a frost or freeze this late in the season, my gardening days are over. I have tomato and cucumber plants over five feet tall.

Ted

Tracydr · May 23, 2014

For plants that I overwinter and sensitive tropicals-
I prefer large cardboard boxes. Also, a fan and or space heater on the most desire able plants. If I grow winter tomatoes I always use pots and they get carried in and out if freeze is possible.
I also plant tender plants like peppers and eggplants close to the house for heat mass.
I have a 4 year old jalapeño and had two eggplants for 4 years so it works.

bughunter99 · May 23, 2014

-I put the earliest plants out into the warmest parts of the yard that are least likely to frost first (nothing on the bottom of a slope, against a collection point etc.)

-I check the weather daily. Paying particular attention to clear nights, that is when it gets you.

-Anything where night-time low is forecast for 40 or below and the night is projected to be clear gets a long drink of water, followed by row cover tossed over the top of it. Nothing fussy here, giant sheet tossed over and weighted down.

-If despite my best efforts they were to be hit by frost my plan would be to hit them with water mist before the sun hits them, and then cover them with shading to keep the sun off of them for a few hours. ANd not to prune off anything for a few weeks.

-Stacy

jmsieglaff · May 23, 2014

My 50% frost date is about May 2. My 20% date is May 13 and 10% date is May 20. I usually plant tomatoes out ~May 10-15 and peppers ~May 15-20, depending on soil temps and 5-7 day forecast.

I'd say about every third year or so I end up covering the tomatoes for one night with old blankets and sheets--maybe 1 of those 3 coverings end up being needed with frost. So I'd say the data I have is fairly accurate for here.

This year the tomatoes went out May 18 and peppers May 20. A little late compared to recent years for tomatoes--but I wanted my soil temps up and we had a night about the 15th that had potential for frost (but didn't get it). The peppers went out only a few days later because we had a couple days in the mid/upper 80s, which the 4" soil temps jumped and our forecast was favorable.

decherdt · May 24, 2014

Went with row cover(ed) low tunnels with trouble lights or electric heater this year (mid Mar-late April). I figure plastic is more likely to cook 'em while I'm at work. Changed the tunnels for CRW caging 4 weeks later.

creister · May 24, 2014

Ted,

I hope none of us get frost this late in the year. If grow cloth/row cover touches the plants, will that cause damage like plastic touching the plants?

May 24, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by creister

Ted,

I hope none of us get frost this late in the year. If grow cloth/row cover touches the plants, will that cause damage like plastic touching the plants?

It never has with me. The plastic seems to be a better transmitter of heat than the cloth. I don't know the principles of contact with plastic versus cloth. It may be related to the fact that cloth traps air in the fabric which acts as insulation. I don't really know.

Ted

bower · May 24, 2014

Row cover doesn't get condensation on it since moisture passes through, so not harmful to touch the leaves afaik.
I use row cover and if it's especially cold, extra layers of it.

I put all the plants together and drape one piece over all the cages, tuck it in with clothespins.

I use clear 2 L juice bottles as solar hot water bottles, in the worst conditions I might fill some with hot water just before tucking in the 'tent'.

If it's a cold night after a cold day or several, and soil is getting cold, I might mix up some warm kelp drink and give each plant a little to gently warm the root zone.

May 23, 2014	#1
creister Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Abilene, TX zone 7 Posts: 1,478	What is your frost management plan? With all of the crazy weather, particularly later than normal frosts, what do you all do to protect in ground plants? I wrap all cages with medium weight row cover, including the top. If I have leaves, I will surround the bottom of the outside of the wrapped cage with them. Works okay, but was wondering if there is something better. What thickness of plastic do you use?

May 23, 2014	#5
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	My frost management plan is to NEVER plant out until at least two weeks after the last average frost date,which doesn't always work, but usually does, and then hope for better weather. Carolyn __________________ Carolyn

May 23, 2014	#2
Stvrob Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,413	I have no frost plan. If it freezes now, I'll just give up till next year

May 23, 2014	#3
KarenO Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Vancouver Island Posts: 5,931	average frost dates are only averages. Watching the weather and long range forecasts and waiting to plant out until it is safe is the best frost management strategy. Getting a jump on the season is nice but the risk may not be worth it. For a surprise late spring or early frost, cloth is your best protection. thicker the better. Moving blankets are perfect but flannel sheets, blankets, towels whatever you can get hold (I have emptied my linen closet completely on occasion) draped over cages/stakes. Tarps work for larger areas but plastic is not much use at all and the fleecy row cover stuff will only protect to just freezing whereas a blanket will give you several degrees of frost protection. In spring, the best bet is to wait to plant out until not only is there essentially no risk of frost but the ground is thoroughly warm as well. Patience is rewarded hard as it is to wait sometimes. KarenO from the frozen north

May 23, 2014	#4
joseph Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2013 Location: Cache Valley, N/E of The Great Salt Lake Posts: 1,244	My frost management plan is to not put sensitive plants in the ground until it is very unlikely that they will get frozen. For example, my normal tomato planting date is two weeks after our average last frost date... And then, only if conditions look favorable at that time. I might put some sacrificial plants in the ground before then. But they are always expendable. If they make it, great. If they fail, no big deal. In my ideal world, something like 50% of the tomatoes would get killed by frost each year. Because I save my own seeds that would select for more frost/cold tolerant plants for next year. I was so proud of one okra plant from my okra breeding project, because it survived the first fall frost. Yay!!! But it didn't survive the second fall frost the next night. Boo Hoo! I still saved the seeds from that plant. It had a hint more frost tolerance than the general population, so it's worth re-planting.

May 23, 2014	#7
Dewayne mater Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2008 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 1,212	I do the same as you, Creister. However, if it is going to be below 28, I'll pull my tainers into the garage. I have also created a small greenhouse by laying tomato cages on their side and stretching a heavy plastic material over the whole area, which hold in place with bricks. That method seems to trap more heat in the event of an unexpected late hard freeze. Dewayne mater

May 23, 2014	#8
tedln Guest Posts: n/a	I keep containers of various sizes on hand. I pile oak leaves over each plant as insulation and then place a container or bucket over each. I try to make sure the plant is not touching the plastic container anywhere because every place it touches will be frozen. If we get a frost or freeze this late in the season, my gardening days are over. I have tomato and cucumber plants over five feet tall. Ted

May 23, 2014	#9
Tracydr Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2011 Location: Laurinburg, North Carolina, zone 7 Posts: 3,207	For plants that I overwinter and sensitive tropicals- I prefer large cardboard boxes. Also, a fan and or space heater on the most desire able plants. If I grow winter tomatoes I always use pots and they get carried in and out if freeze is possible. I also plant tender plants like peppers and eggplants close to the house for heat mass. I have a 4 year old jalapeño and had two eggplants for 4 years so it works.

May 23, 2014	#10
bughunter99 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: zone 5 Posts: 821	-I put the earliest plants out into the warmest parts of the yard that are least likely to frost first (nothing on the bottom of a slope, against a collection point etc.) -I check the weather daily. Paying particular attention to clear nights, that is when it gets you. -Anything where night-time low is forecast for 40 or below and the night is projected to be clear gets a long drink of water, followed by row cover tossed over the top of it. Nothing fussy here, giant sheet tossed over and weighted down. -If despite my best efforts they were to be hit by frost my plan would be to hit them with water mist before the sun hits them, and then cover them with shading to keep the sun off of them for a few hours. ANd not to prune off anything for a few weeks. -Stacy

May 23, 2014	#11
jmsieglaff Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Southern WI Posts: 2,742	My 50% frost date is about May 2. My 20% date is May 13 and 10% date is May 20. I usually plant tomatoes out ~May 10-15 and peppers ~May 15-20, depending on soil temps and 5-7 day forecast. I'd say about every third year or so I end up covering the tomatoes for one night with old blankets and sheets--maybe 1 of those 3 coverings end up being needed with frost. So I'd say the data I have is fairly accurate for here. This year the tomatoes went out May 18 and peppers May 20. A little late compared to recent years for tomatoes--but I wanted my soil temps up and we had a night about the 15th that had potential for frost (but didn't get it). The peppers went out only a few days later because we had a couple days in the mid/upper 80s, which the 4" soil temps jumped and our forecast was favorable.

May 24, 2014	#12
decherdt Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 329	Went with row cover(ed) low tunnels with trouble lights or electric heater this year (mid Mar-late April). I figure plastic is more likely to cook 'em while I'm at work. Changed the tunnels for CRW caging 4 weeks later.

May 24, 2014	#15
bower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 6,794	Row cover doesn't get condensation on it since moisture passes through, so not harmful to touch the leaves afaik. I use row cover and if it's especially cold, extra layers of it. I put all the plants together and drape one piece over all the cages, tuck it in with clothespins. I use clear 2 L juice bottles as solar hot water bottles, in the worst conditions I might fill some with hot water just before tucking in the 'tent'. If it's a cold night after a cold day or several, and soil is getting cold, I might mix up some warm kelp drink and give each plant a little to gently warm the root zone.