Soaking Seeds in Whey

[Labradors2]

Bower wrote:

"I was recently reading up about the seed fermentation process, and led me to some research in which seeds of several crops were pre-soaked in Lactobacillus culture, with positive results re plant health vigour and yields.

I have started to wonder whether seeds of different age/source/treatment unknown have ended up being the stragglers or the disease prone ones, cw seed which I know was fermented and unbleached, so maybe some lactobacillus residue present....and maybe not a genetic susceptibility of the variety but just a poorer start. I'm thinking of giving all my seeds a soak in whey before planting next time. "

[Labradors2]

I think that is most interesting!

I'm wondering whether to dampen the paper towel in which I start my seeds with whey, or at least water them with it when they are quite small.

I make my own kefir from "grains" so it's easy to make some whey by just letting it brew a little longer than usual.

Linda

[dustdevil]

What is the best whey to do this?

[carolyn137]

Could you give me a link to where Bower said that and here's why.

Retired Microbiologist I am and Lactobacilli I understand and what's used to process different foods are the species that are called homofermentative, meaning they produce lactic acid only.

I cannot understand how lactic acid can do anything to seeds at all that could affect vigor and growth, no more than the acid producing bacteria and fungi that are present during natural fermentation.

I'll look again using the words cheese curds, since I know I used those words in answering Carol's post.

Carolyn

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Could you give me a link to where Bower said that and here's why.

Retired Microbiologist I am and Lactobacilli I understand and what's used to process different foods are the species that are called homofermentative, meaning they produce lactic acid only.

I cannot understand how lactic acid can do anything to seeds at all that could affect vigor and growth, no more than the acid producing bacteria and fungi that are present during natural fermentation.

I'll look again using the words cheese curds, since I know I used those words in answering Carol's post.

Carolyn

I found it, general discussion about Zlatava and also posted there.

Carolyn

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by dustdevil

What is the best whey to do this?

whey from fermented raw milk. Here is a science study about e coli and whey from cheddar. But it is a similar result from other wheys and other pathogens, even plant pathogens.

Survival and growth characteristics of Escherichia coli O157:H7 in pasteurized and unpasteurized Cheddar cheese whey.

Keep in mind when I say raw milk whey, I mean real milk from healthy clean pastured cows that only eat grass and don't get metabolic modifiers.

Using a confinement dairy's unpasteurised raw milk for any purpose, including soaking seeds, is very dangerous.

[Labradors2]

Hi Carolyn,

You found it sooner than I did! I started a new thread because the other was going waaaay off topic.

Don't you think that lactobacillus might possibly kill other, harmful bacteria that might be on the seed (assuming that it wasn't properly fermented in the first place)?

Linda

[RayR]

Originally Posted by Labradors2

Bower wrote:

"I was recently reading up about the seed fermentation process, and led me to some research in which seeds of several crops were pre-soaked in Lactobacillus culture, with positive results re plant health vigour and yields. "

Do you have any links to information on this technique?
You'll need an active Lactobacillus culture, what whey source did you have in mind?

Originally Posted by Labradors2

Bower wrote:
I have started to wonder whether seeds of different age/source/treatment unknown have ended up being the stragglers or the disease prone ones, cw seed which I know was fermented and unbleached, so maybe some lactobacillus residue present....and maybe not a genetic susceptibility of the variety but just a poorer start. I'm thinking of giving all my seeds a soak in whey before planting next time. "

Interesting experiment. One issue that I see is that there are many different strains of Lactobacillus which produce different metabolites, like a few are known to produce IAA which is a plant growth hormone, others may not have any direct growth promoting effects but may inhibit pathogens by way of low PH from the acids they produce.

[Labradors2]

I'm not Bower, the originator of this, but I would use kefir whey which is milk-based and contains zillions more probiotics than yoghurt.

In fact, I used to swill out my kefir jars and glasses with water and pour them on my tomato seedlings. At least I never killed any, and I felt that they might be getting some nutrients at least!

Linda

[beeman]

Interesting thread! I have been making a variety of cheese for some years and disposing of the whey produced onto my compost bin, that's the general suggestion, as you shouldn't pour it down the septic bed. Makes great compost!
The other suggestion, apart from cooking a variety of things with it, is to dilute and water plants with it. So I can't see any problem with using it on seeds, there is a great deal of nutrients available, certainly tastes good.
Will be interested in any trials.

[RayR]

Originally Posted by Labradors2

I'm not Bower, the originator of this, but I would use kefir whey which is milk-based and contains zillions more probiotics than yoghurt.

In fact, I used to swill out my kefir jars and glasses with water and pour them on my tomato seedlings. At least I never killed any, and I felt that they might be getting some nutrients at least!

Linda

I'm not familiar with kefir, but now that I've read some about it I guess that is worth a try to see if it has any benefits to germination. Do a side by side with a control and see what happens and let us know.

[Labradors2]

I'll give it a whirl in the spring and report back!

Linda

[Labradors2]

But what about kefir whey? I'm betting that the lactic acid in the kefir would wipe out any e-coli that were present in the pasteurized milk.

Linda

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by Labradors2

But what about kefir whey? I'm betting that the lactic acid in the kefir would wipe out any e-coli that were present in the pasteurized milk.

Linda

Might work, but I found no scientific studies on it one way or the other. Not even closely related studies to draw a reasonable hypothesis from. Sorry

The good news is you could be the first to make an exciting scientific breakthrough!

[Labradors2]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11510651

How about this one?

Linda