TomatoTone + ? or Should I DIY?

[feldon30]

Last year was my first year gardening in the Carolinas, first time trying to grow anything in heavy red clay, and first time not using raised beds. In my 30x10 plot, a company came out and tilled the clay (and blew a hydraulic hose when they tried to dig deeper than 3 inches).

I added a few cubic yards of a garden mix. Then I added about 200 lbs of Black Kow, 100 lbs of Mushroom Compost, 3 large bags of Promix, 150 lb of Rabbit Manure (fresh). For each tomato plant, I added about 1/2 cup of TomatoTone, 1/4 cup of Happy Frog, and a little bit of dolomitic lime.

Believe it or not, with all of that, the plants did not put on any significant size and productivity on the plants I'd started was pretty low. Also, all of my heart/paste varieties exhibited extreme amounts of BER and even some of the Cherokee Purples had it. Strangely, plants I bought from Bonnie's (ugh) of Cherokee Purple and Big Beef produced very well (20-40 fruit per plant).

In November, I drove around the neighborhood and collected 10 cubic yards of mostly oak leaves. We ran them through a Troy-Bilt shredder and I have about 6" of them sitting on my plot. I am co-gardening with a friend who owns the property so the rest of the leaves went over his 40x30 area.

FInally, my gardening partner-in-crime and I have found a fellow that has 19 alpaca. We already added some aged alpaca manure to our plots but this year we'll be getting a shovel full or two.

So with all this said, I know I need to add substantial amounts of dolomitic lime to the soil to get the pH under control and increase calcium availability. But what about fertilizer?

I was a diehard TomatoTone fan before the reformulation. Is it still worth using some of it due to the micronutrients? I know there have been a lot of threads and Rnewste has done a lot of testing of the old vs. new. Should I just buy bags of bone meal, blood meal, etc. and make my own fert? Is there a product or products worth buying and mixing together? I don't mind spending some money if the results speak for themselves.

[Labradors2]

All your amendments sound amazing to me, but I think you have a similar problem to me in that I am also growing on clay. Heavy blue clay that would make fine pottery, but is a real chore to dig.

We have built up a bed, 12' by 24'. x 8" I have finally stopped hubby from using the tiller - not that he could get very deep with it and it destroys all the beneficial microbes and worms. Instead, we have dumped garden soil, plus loads and loads of aged cow manure (over the years). The garden is now teeming with worms and the plants are doing well. I add compost at planting time, but no more ferts after that.

I question the need for calcium if you are growing on clay, and wonder if it's more a case of irregular watering/rainfall causing the BER.

Using a mulch really helps a LOT and I have used black plastic as well as newspaper topped with coir. For me it keeps the water in, so that I don't need to water much at all after the plants get going.

I've used Tomato Tone on my indoor potted plants with great results, but I bet you could make your own with equal success. I used dehydrated fish meal on my container plants last summer and they were great. Growing medium was pro-mix, the one with the fungi.

Linda

[Dutch]

Gypsum Helps Recondition Clay And Hardpan Type Soils
“Are clay or hardpan problems in your garden? Gypsum may be just the answer to help break -up and loosen the soil structure. It's not a miracle and it doesn't work over-night, but a three-year program of yearly applications should help improve poor soil conditions. It's easy to apply and relatively inexpensive for the job it does.
One of the biggest problems a home gardener faces in a new or established garden is a clay or hardpan type of soil. Poor drainage, soggy soil, and soil compaction are just a few of the conditions that clay or hardpan soils create.
In a new garden one can work organic humus into the soil to help break-up poor soil. Bark, sawdust, manure, compost, peat moss and soil mulches and conditioners are often used for this purpose. Incidentally, if bark or sawdust are used they will leach nitrogen from the soil, as they decompose, so additional nitrogen will need to be added on a seasonal basis.
But what do you do in an established garden? It would be too much work and take too much time to dig, replant and then recondition the soil. Here's where Gypsum may be just the answer for reconditioning the soil, because it can be applied on the surface soil in the vegetable garden, flowerbeds or on the lawn. In other words it does not have to be worked (cultivated or spaded) into the soil, it can simply be spread on the surface. What does Gypsum do? It has the ability to penetrate the millions of fine clay particles in heavy or hardpan type soils and loosen the soil structure. This process then creates air and moisture spaces that eventually loosen and break-up the soil structure. The only problem is that this doesn't happen overnight, it takes yearly applications, over about a three-year period to get the job done.
It should be noted that Gypsum does not contain any major plant nutrients, so it will still be necessary to continue a regular fertilizing program. Plus, you should continue to add organic humus in new areas, as you plant. Gypsum does contain calcium and sulfur, which are beneficial to plant growth.
Gypsum is easy to apply! Simply spread it on the lawn with a lawn fertilizer spreader, at the rate of 40 pounds per thousand square feet. The granular grade is the best, and easiest to apply, for home garden use.
A single application each year is sufficient. And, it can be spread at any time of the year. Water it in right away, in order to get it working in the soil. Gypsum is neutral, non-toxic to humans and animals and does not burn.
When preparing new soil for planting flowers, shrubs, vegetables or a new lawn, mix 20 to 30 pounds of Gypsum per one thousand square feet of heavy soil. Mix the Gypsum into the soil and water well.
If you are making an application of Gypsum on the soil around established plantings use it at the rate of only 40 pounds per thousand square feet. Under these circumstances the Gypsum can be spread or broadcast over the beds. And, like with the lawn, a single application should be done only once a year, over a three-year period. There is no need to mix it into the soil, simply water-it-in.
Since Gypsum is neutral and does not change the soil pH, you can use it in areas where plants like Rhododendrons, Azaleas, Camellias and other acid loving plants grow, because they need a little calcium too. As with all products, Gypsum must be applied as directed on the label of the brand you use.
It is very possible that your local garden outlet may not stock Gypsum, simply because they do not get enough calls for the product. But, if you will request it, they can special order it for you. It is usually available in 80 pound bags, and occasionally in 50 pound bags. Ask them for a price quote before you purchase it.
Remember Gypsum doesn't work over-night, it takes yearly applications over a three-year period. But Gypsum can eventually help improve the soil structure in heavy clay or hardpan type soils.” http://www.humeseeds.com/gypsum.htm


Dutch

[Ed of Somis]

Keep in mind...Dutch is on the board of directors of Gypsum International Mining. Actually, in my neck of the woods...most avocado growers till gypsum into the soil prior to planting (I have done this for years). As D states...there are benefits other than breaking the clay. Do make sure you buy the right form of gypsum. It comes in several formats. DO NOT buy the pellets. My ag supply sells 50 lb bags (powdered ag blend) for around $3.50.

[JJJessee]

I hear ya. Clay is often thought of as a curse. But consider this. You can take 3" of clay and make 10"+ of pretty decent topsoil ;-)

And you are on the fast track to doing so with all those leaves. Just keep doing for another 6 years and you'll proud as Punch of your clay.

That's what I've been told, and work at a little every day.

I was in about the same boat as you 3 years ago. My clay was a little deeper and browner,
so maybe I had that head start. In one section ~ 40x60 I built, using a tiller and shovel, raised beds a few per year. and mixed in compost by the yard (25-35%), a little sand and dolmite. I top them up as needed some of them need it now. Earthworms have went from almost none to about one every gallon of soil, and I hope they continue to expands, but I'll have to keep feeding them.

The 60x100 section I put in a couple rows of raspberries and tilled in remaining 40x100 3-4 crops of buckwheat during the first summer. Rye and vetch went on the winter. Then I started growing potatoes, peppers, tomatoes, and beans. But I have left one 10' strip out of summer production with buckwheat. And all of it gets a winter cover of grain and a legume. That soil is definitely improving even in that short of time and minimal improvements. As have the crops. One significant thing I have done with the peppers and tomatoes to get by in the mean time is "post-holing them". Dig a hole 12-15" by 12" deep and mostly fill it with a good rich, peaty-compost, amended with TomatoTone of whatever you think best. Mix that well with a little bit of the local clay. Two tomatoes can go in that hole, but keep those holes 4'-5' apart. Mulch them good too.

Look for a good local farm supply store got get bulk organic amendments. I'm not too awfully far from 7 Springs Farm in Floyd, VA. Excellent and thorough product line. They also ship, so if you have garden friends to split the cost with that helps.

[feldon30]

Thank you so much for the replies! Just another data point:

In Houston, I largely ignored the native sticky gumbo clay and "rose above" the problem with raised beds. I just added the soill I wanted, rather than trying to spend 5-10 years turning masonry into 'maters.

Is the new tomato tone sufficient by itself and I just need to apply more?

[Dutch]

Yo Feldon, I add Tomato Tone and/or similar products that contain micro-nutriments and mycorrhiza, and also 10-10-10 or 12-12-12 in the base soil. I foliar spray throughout the season but that’s another story. I use 2 or 3 times the amount of NPK (10-10-10) vs granular products that contain micro-nutriments and mycorrhiza.

Ag Gypsum is a ph neutral form of granular Sulfur (S) and Calcium (Ca). And no, I am not affiliated with the gypsum industry in any way, shape or form (although I did chuckle at that comment).

In short it does some pretty neat things. As it channels its’ way into the ground, it loosens the soil, aerates the roots, and creates channels to allows the salts to drop out of the root zone. It also adds two of the three secondary nutrients needs for healthy plant growth. Additionally it is relatively inexpensive compared to other soil amendments.

Primary Nutrients
Nitrogen (N)
Phosphorus (P)
Potassium (K)

Secondary Nutrients
Sulfur (S)
Calcium (Ca)
Magnesium (Mg)

Micronutrients
Zinc (Zn)
Iron (Fe)
Copper (Cu)
Manganese (Mn)
Boron (B)
Molybdenum (Mo)
Chlorine (Cl)

Dutch

[Blueaussi]

Ya know, the fertilizer question is one you're going to have to decide on your own. With all the amending you've done, and done so recently, there's no telling what's going on in your soil. I would suggest a soil test before I added anything else.

That being said, I have always liked TomatoTone, both the new and the old. I find that peppers are more sensitive to high nitrogen than tomatoes, and I grow a whole lot of peppers. However, there are also a lot more choices in organic fertilizers and amendments these days, and sometimes you have to experiment on which one is best for the conditions in your soil. I believe Fox Farms has opened a plant in Anderson County, so buying Happy Frog products will soon be supporting a local business, which is something I like to do.

I would also suggest looking into some sort of leguminous winter cover crop to help break up the deeper clay. There is actually some research being done on large scale cover cropping here in South Carolina, but you might pick up some hints for home garden use . <https://www.facebook.com/groups/carolinacovercropconnection/>

I have, btw, gone completely over to container gardening. My knees are too bad for me to weed and maintain an in ground garden, so my needs are going to be a little different from yours.

[creister]

Feldon,

I put 1/2 cup tomato tone and 2 cups of earthworm castings in each planting hole. I have had very impressive results using this combo

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by creister

Feldon,

I put 1/2 cup tomato tone and 2 cups of earthworm castings in each planting hole. I have had very impressive results using this combo

I use a similar system. Except this year my mix is 2 bags of peat, 1 bag of cow manure compost, 1 bag of mushroom compost, 1 bag of horse manure compost, 1 bag of potting soil, 1 bag of top soil, 1 bag of coffee grounds. All bags are 40-50 pounds and the whole lot cost me less than 10 dollars. (horse manure compost and coffee grounds are free). If that runs out I will use a 50/50 mix of horse manure compost and wood chip leaf compost. (free) If that runs out I will use municipal compost. (free if you load it yourself, or 10 dollars per truckload if they load it with their frontloader) That won't run out. I mix in a dry organic fertiliser in each batch. Last year I used garden tone. This year maybe garden tone again, or maybe I might try Urban farms dry organic fert product. I might even try some Unkle Dunkles organic. The pepper product seemed pretty good last year. (just to compare) I also add a mycorrhizal fungi inoculant dissolved in compost tea to each planting hole.

Since I am dealing with a few acres, I also just use this in the planting hole only. It's for the tomato/pepper seedlings only. There is no way to reasonably amend the whole acreage. It is one red brick. Technically LitB (sandy clay loam), but so degraded that it has almost no nutrients and only 1.2% organic matter. I did my soil tests. They are insufficient in everything! On the other hand, my small 1/10th acre test plot that has been using this system 2 years is already up to 2.6 % carbon and barely passed the soil test this year as sufficient in everything but nitrogen. YEAH!!!!!! And my small garden is so full of soft soil I hate to even walk on it after 6 years of this. It's not even red anymore down to 6-10 inches!

Keep in mind this is with no tillage and only amending the seedling holes. Besides that just mulch. I let the worms do the work. This is the lazy and cheap skate man's method. That I certainly am, but it might work for feldon too.

[creister]

I forgot to mention that one year I also mixed in 2 tablespoons of rock phosphate. I believe that really helped as well

[Sun City Linda]

I lived on that "break your wrist hardpan" for a few years. I bought Earthboxes. Works great.

[Chapinz8]

I defer to your knowledge of gardening but welcome to South Carolina. I think you just need a little more time for your soil to mature. Wow, your additions were impressive. I have 12 year old raised beds that are probably 70% mushroom compost. Each year I add some mushroom compost, maybe some cow manure, maybe some leaves and I always mulch with about 4 inches of grass clippings, just because I have a lot of it. I really believe all of those shredded leaves will turn the corner for you, if not the first year, certainly by the second.

To follow up on Blueaussie's comment, there is a new compost made in SC called Stout Ollie which I am now starting to add in place of the mushroom compost. I really like it. It's made from cotton plant waste, cow manure from grass fed cows and catfish trimmings from Lake Marion. Good stuff.

Last year I did add some Great White Mycorrhizae to the planting hole and it seemed to help. Was my best year in any event. I have used Tomato Tone several years. I only add some blood meal for nitrogen after fruit set. This based on extension analysis which indicated I was high in most nutrients.

[Blueaussi]

I keep forgetting about Stout Ollie! I enthusiastically agree, it's good stuff!

[Ed of Somis]

So, I enjoy the journey of differing opinions and techniques. I am too dumb to know when someone is full of BS...or if they have a good/novel idea (relating to tomatoes). Earlier today I was trying to help a newbie with his avocado problems (I have 20 trees/16 varieties...and some jerk was giving this guy really bad info. Very frustrating...Anyway, one option that I have been reading about is alfalfa pellets as organic fert. It sounds good to me...has anybody here used this???