Brad's Black Heart

[Starlight]

I have two plants of Brad's Black Heart. They were set just a few feet away from each other.

First time growing it and this is what I got. One plant making cute mini Brad's Black Heart's and one making some nice , beautiful heart shaped fruits.

I know I'll save the seeds from the big BBH. Looks just about perfect to me, but what about the mini BBH's. Should I, and if I do will the seeds make more mini hearts?

Can anybody tell me how this might have come about?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Starlight

I have two plants of Brad's Black Heart. They were set just a few feet away from each other.

First time growing it and this is what I got. One plant making cute mini Brad's Black Heart's and one making some nice , beautiful heart shaped fruits.

I know I'll save the seeds from the big BBH. Looks just about perfect to me, but what about the mini BBH's. Should I, and if I do will the seeds make more mini hearts?

Can anybody tell me how this might have come about?

I can understand a single plant producing some fruits that are smaller than the others, I'm OK with that, but to have one plant produce all large hearts and another plant produce all mini hearts, that does surprise me, since off hand I can't think of a genetic reason for that to happen.

If it were me I'd save seeds from the large ones, and also some seeds from the small ones, and put out several plants from seeds of the small ones next season and see what you get.

Best I can do but perhaps someone will come along with an explanation as to why ALL mini hearts on your one plant, that makes sense genetically. it can't be a somatic mutation and I would think that only environmental or amendments could do something like that, but I'm sure you had both plants next to each and were grown identically so you could compare directly.

Carolyn

[maf]

My experience of growing Wild Boar Farms varieties (seeds obtained directly from WBF) is that they are not 100% stable and getting plants that exhibit a different size or shape of fruit happens from time to time. I get the impression WBF saves seeds from large populations of plants that might show some small variations between individuals, and also there is the possibility for them to recross in the field.

[Starlight]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

I can understand a single plant producing some fruits that are smaller than the others, I'm OK with that, but to have one plant produce all large hearts and another plant produce all mini hearts, that does surprise me, since off hand I can't think of a genetic reason for that to happen.

I remember you saying at some point through the years about how one different tomato may show up, but it threw me when I had more than one.

If it were me I'd save seeds from the large ones, and also some seeds from the small ones, and put out several plants from seeds of the small ones next season and see what you get.

Sounds like a plan. I will do that. In case somebody should want some of these mini BBH to play around with too, any idea on how I should label them?

Best I can do but perhaps someone will come along with an explanation as to why ALL mini hearts on your one plant, that makes sense genetically. it can't be a somatic mutation and I would think that only environmental or amendments could do something like that, but I'm sure you had both plants next to each and were grown identically so you could compare directly.

Carolyn

Yes they were. Same watering, food, pot size and soil conditions. I even went back and checked several times to make sure I had right plants and tags. Was weird to see. Thanks for trying to help.

Originally Posted by maf

My experience of growing Wild Boar Farms varieties (seeds obtained directly from WBF) is that they are not 100% stable and getting plants that exhibit a different size or shape of fruit happens from time to time. I get the impression WBF saves seeds from large populations of plants that might show some small variations between individuals, and also there is the possibility for them to recross in the field.

Ahhhhhhh Thank you Maf. That would seem to be a logical explanation. I am not familiar with WBF. When I get a chance, I'll have to take a look at their site and see if anything else I might be growing is from them in case I see this again.

Maybe the seeds from the mini will make something good and/or unusual. Might be fun to see.

Later today, I'll be getting the seeds removed and tasting these tomato types for the first time. Wonder if the mini will taste like the large heart.

[Hunt-Grow-Cook]

Originally Posted by maf

My experience of growing Wild Boar Farms varieties (seeds obtained directly from WBF) is that they are not 100% stable and getting plants that exhibit a different size or shape of fruit happens from time to time. I get the impression WBF saves seeds from large populations of plants that might show some small variations between individuals, and also there is the possibility for them to recross in the field.

I have grown a large number WBF varieties (15+) and would agree with this 100%. Some grow true, but it seems the newest varities are still segregating, at least for me. Sometimes its a welcome suprise, other times it can be frustrating. Just part of the game. Brad is usually interested in unsual finds, so if you think you have something unique, shoot him an email.

My experience with Brads Black Heart was all large fruits. Some quite a bit larger than yours. Wasnt the most productive for me, but the flavor was good.

[Starlight]

Originally Posted by Hunt-Grow-Cook

I have grown a large number WBF varieties (15+) and would agree with this 100%. Some grow true, but it seems the newest varities are still segregating, at least for me. Sometimes its a welcome suprise, other times it can be frustrating. Just part of the game. Brad is usually interested in unsual finds, so if you think you have something unique, shoot him an email.

My experience with Brads Black Heart was all large fruits. Some quite a bit larger than yours. Wasnt the most productive for me, but the flavor was good.

Thanks for the suggestion. If it keeps making mini's I see if he wants some of the seed. The mini is definitely out performing the regular heart.

[tam91]

I have grown varieties from WBF (seeds obtained directly) and they always grew true for me, so far.

[Salsacharley]

I've had some considerable variations from WBF varieties. I've grown, or am growing almost every variety offered. Right now I have 2 Amethyst Jewel plants from the same seed packet, with one true to type and the other completely different. I had a Black & Brown Boar a couple of years ago that came out like Blonde Boar.

Last year I posted that I found a "sport" Michael Pollan fruit on my Michael Pollan plant that was a beefsteak instead of a "pepper" shaped Michael Pollan. It was on the same stem that standard Michael Pollan fruit was on. I grew out 1 plant from the "sport" this year and it is a small plant producing beefsteak fruit, all too green to determine what they will be, but I will continue my Michael Pollan thread once they are ripe.

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...l+Pollan+Sport

[bower]

Starlight, do the minis taste the same as the big ones?

I know most people here are crazy for large fruit, but smaller ones are often better for us with our short and unpredictable season...

[NarnianGarden]

Originally Posted by bower

Starlight, do the minis taste the same as the big ones?

I know most people here are crazy for large fruit, but smaller ones are often better for us with our short and unpredictable season...

Yes, and smaller fruit varieties do not seem to be so affected by the arch-nemesis, BER...

[travis]

I remember clearly, back in the day at GardenWeb tomato forum, when Brad Gates first showed the "black heart" tomatoes he found in a row of Black Krim tomatoes, and a couple of skeptics insisted it was purely an environmental stress condition that extended the longitudinal size and shape of the fruit.

[Starlight]

Originally Posted by Salsacharley

I've had some considerable variations from WBF varieties. I've grown, or am growing almost every variety offered. Right now I have 2 Amethyst Jewel plants from the same seed packet, with one true to type and the other completely different. I had a Black & Brown Boar a couple of years ago that came out like Blonde Boar.

Last year I posted that I found a "sport" Michael Pollan fruit on my Michael Pollan plant that was a beefsteak instead of a "pepper" shaped Michael Pollan. It was on the same stem that standard Michael Pollan fruit was on. I grew out 1 plant from the "sport" this year and it is a small plant producing beefsteak fruit, all too green to determine what they will be, but I will continue my Michael Pollan thread once they are ripe.

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...l+Pollan+Sport

I'll keep an eye on your thread. Sometimes it is the surprises that make the growing of tomatoes interesting. Other than peppers, I don't think there is any fruit that gets as much attention as tomatoes nor can produce such variations. It does keep a body hopping. I hope it turns out good for you.

Originally Posted by bower

Starlight, do the minis taste the same as the big ones?

I know most people here are crazy for large fruit, but smaller ones are often better for us with our short and unpredictable season...

Pretty darn close. The difference in taste is very slight to me. I did enjoy it. I'm not an expereienced taste tester . It reminded me of the sweetness of my Brandywine Suddith Strain, but not so sweet that you wanted to spit it out. Would I eat and grow the mini again. Yes. I liked it. I don't like super sweet tomatoes, but then again again I don't like ones that bite me back. I'm not too sure what full flavor means, but I think this to my tastebuds would qualify for it.

Originally Posted by travis

I remember clearly, back in the day at GardenWeb tomato forum, when Brad Gates first showed the "black heart" tomatoes he found in a row of Black Krim tomatoes, and a couple of skeptics insisted it was purely an environmental stress condition that extended the longitudinal size and shape of the fruit.

If I only had one tomato and they were grown in different set ups I think I would agree after reading posts, but all the plants here get treated the same. I even pretty much give close to same amount of water. I guess I am weird that way in that I like everything to be the same and try and keep orderly.

Originally Posted by NarnianGarden

Yes, and smaller fruit varieties do not seem to be so affected by the arch-nemesis, BER...

I think I agree with you. Maybe it is because the smaller ones seem to ripen a bit sooner and have less chance of being infected. I like the size of the beefstakes , but they sure are more work it seems to me and less tomatoes too.

[Fred Hempel]

Skepticism is good. But so is being open-minded to what others see.

I am always trying to balance these two traits.

Originally Posted by travis

I remember clearly, back in the day at GardenWeb tomato forum, when Brad Gates first showed the "black heart" tomatoes he found in a row of Black Krim tomatoes, and a couple of skeptics insisted it was purely an environmental stress condition that extended the longitudinal size and shape of the fruit.