Ripening on the vine

[rhines81]

I was doing a lot of surfing last night and collectively gathered a few tips from various sites (sorry, I have no idea where from unless I go searching again).

1st - tomatoes draw up to 50% of their sweetness from the plant during the last couple of days of ripening. I know everyone says to pick when they are blushing, but to the contrary it cuts the fruit off from receiving it's last dose of goodness from the mothership.

2nd - wind blows the ethylene gases away preventing the tomato from ripening. My thought on this was to perhaps place a paper bag over a clump of tomatoes to keep the gas in. After all, the fruit itself does not need the sun directly.

Other thoughts?

[Labradors2]

Firstly, it has been said that the stem dries up and no nutrients pass through at the end of the ripening process. Therefore, it probably doesn't make much difference if tomatoes are picked before they are perfectly ripe.

Bags over your ripening tomatoes? Aren't you over-thinking this? Do you have a problem with the way Mother Nature does things?

Linda

[JLJ_]

Originally Posted by rhines81

I was doing a lot of surfing last night and collectively gathered a few tips from various sites (sorry, I have no idea where from unless I go searching again).

1st - tomatoes draw up to 50% of their sweetness from the plant during the last couple of days of ripening. I know everyone says to pick when they are blushing, but to the contrary it cuts the fruit off from receiving it's last dose of goodness from the mothership.

2nd - wind blows the ethylene gases away preventing the tomato from ripening. My thought on this was to perhaps place a paper bag over a clump of tomatoes to keep the gas in. After all, the fruit itself does not need the sun directly.

Other thoughts?

1) It's a good idea to keep track of where you find info you wish to use, as there is a lot of info around that is, er, good for enriching your compost . . . but sometimes something you find that sounds different is actually data based and useful.

2) Ethylene gassing a tomato by enclosing it, enclosing it with other ripe fruit that are vigorous gas producers, or using other means to supply the gas, is a technique that many advocate. But it doesn't really hasten the full ripening process. (In my view -- as it's usually practiced -- what it primarily does is make a green tomato change color.) When you make a tomato look ripe by intensifying the level of ethylene gas around it, you're using the same technique that gives us grocery store tomatoes, so use your own judgement as to whether that is your objective.

3) If you have no birds, beasts, bugs or unfeathered bipeds that damage or appropriate your tomatoes, if your weather is good, with no sudden heavy rains to cause cracking, no temps below 50 degrees F., no severe winds, no excessive heat, if you have no disease issues with your tomatoes, if your plants have a more or less optimum fruit load, that is, if there is no advantage to them to get mature tomatoes off them to improve chances for those fruit still in progress, then you will almost certainly get good fruit by leaving the tomatoes in place until they are ripe enough to use.

4) If the conditions in 3 aren't met, many of us find that we get the largest yield and best fruit by picking fruit at the mature green stage and letting it ripen inside, out of the sun (not in a windowsill, for example), at room temperature, or slightly below. We put ours uncovered in large shallow plastic tubs, with newspaper in the bottom but not around the fruit, fruit single layer, not touching. One way to recognize when fruit is mature green is that many -- not all -- fruit have a "star" of white rays at the blossom end at this stage.

Some people, if conditions in item 3 permit, prefer to leave the mature greens on the plant until they begin to blush -- to show color -- but we have found that this time of year, if temps are going below 50 F, fruit quality can suffer if mature green tomatoes are left on the vine, even though temps in the 30s and 40s don't destroy the fruit.

5) One year I accidentally left my tomato ripening trays under the lights I use for starting seedlings -- giving them additional light, but not the heat of being in the sun -- and they ripened particularly nicely -- even ones that weren't quite to the mature green stage when picked to save them from sudden winter. I suspect that even after the green tomatoes are sealed off from the mother plant, they may get some metabolic benefit from having their own green skins exposed to light. I wouldn't be surprised if this effect was greater with those that have green shoulders. But both of those are just thoughts of the "perhaps" sort. YMMV

There is a whole heap of material hereabouts from folks with varying experiences about ripening tomatoes for the best results. Here's some links you might find useful.

At First Blush, Harvest Tomatoes
http://www.ksre.ksu.edu/news/sty/200...toes071805.htm

Vine ripen or pull early and ripen indoors
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=23427

Saving seeds from slightly unripe tomato
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=9349

Poll: Taste Test on ripening tomatoes on the vine vs. ripening inside
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?p=228951

[Worth1]

I have a thought.
Why not have your spouse go out and pick a ripe tomato after one they have picked earlier at first blush but has ripened some place out of sight of you.
This way you have no idea which is which.
You taste it and be the judge.

I can also assure you there is more to a grocery store tomato tasting bland than gassing.
It is simply in its genes to be tasteless.

Worth

[rhines81]

Originally Posted by Worth1

I have a thought.
Why not have your spouse go out and pick a ripe tomato after one they have picked earlier at first blush but has ripened some place out of sight of you.
This way you have no idea which is which.
You taste it and be the judge.

I can also assure you there is more to a grocery store tomato tasting bland than gassing.
It is simply in its genes to be tasteless.

Worth

There are a couple of flaws with your thought. I have no spouse and I have yet to see anything resembling a blush!!
I am merely losing my patience. I have had loads of green tomatoes for weeks and none are showing signs of turning. Even the cherry tomatoes are taunting me.

[JLJ_]

Originally Posted by rhines81

. . . I am merely losing my patience. I have had loads of green tomatoes for weeks and none are showing signs of turning. Even the cherry tomatoes are taunting me.

I think we can all empathize. I still have only green tomatoes, and none too many of those, but that's because weather caused them to get in late -- but one year I had MANY beautiful big green tomatoes by midsummer (unusual, here) and anticipated a relatively long season of ripe tomato goodness, and they sat there, and sat there and sat there, for weeks, with no visible change at all. Another year my seedlings sprouted in early spring, appeared to grow normally to about ten day old size, and sat there and sat there, apparently healthy and happy, but unchanging, until it finally got warm enough to put them outside. Then they grew but of course were so small that their maturity was considerably delayed.

I suspect that whenever they achieve a really thorough understanding of tomato genetics they'll discover that tomatoes have a time warp gene that allows them to occasionally freeze their progress -- perhaps because they enjoy watching humans peering at them, gnashing their teeth, tearing their hair, and exhibiting other entertaining manifestations of baffled frustration.

[rhines81]

Originally Posted by JLJ_

I think we can all empathize. I still have only green tomatoes, and none too many of those, but that's because weather caused them to get in late -- but one year I had MANY beautiful big green tomatoes by midsummer (unusual, here) and anticipated a relatively long season of ripe tomato goodness, and they sat there, and sat there and sat there, for weeks, with no visible change at all. Another year my seedlings sprouted in early spring, appeared to grow normally to about ten day old size, and sat there and sat there, apparently healthy and happy, but unchanging, until it finally got warm enough to put them outside. Then they grew but of course were so small that their maturity was considerably delayed.

I also got a very late start this year, about 3 weeks late due to both the weather and timeline for building my new raised beds.

Originally Posted by JLJ_

I suspect that whenever they achieve a really thorough understanding of tomato genetics they'll discover that tomatoes have a time warp gene that allows them to occasionally freeze their progress -- perhaps because they enjoy watching humans peering at them, gnashing their teeth, tearing their hair, and exhibiting other entertaining manifestations of baffled frustration.

[KarenO]

What varieties do you have growing? Maybe different ones next year since these are late for your area.
KarenO

[rhines81]

Originally Posted by KarenO

What varieties do you have growing? Maybe different ones next year since these are late for your area.
KarenO

Brandywine Pink - only a few per plant
Bonny Best - loaded with greenies
Paul Robeson - loaded with dark greenies
San Marzano - many flowers, a couple of green tomatoes
Supersweet 100 VF Hybrid - probably 100 green cherries on 3 plants
Patio Princess Hybrid - about 10-12 per plant, except for the 1 plant on the deck which is down to about 7-8 because the dog keeps eating them ... (I had 2 turning yellow but they are gone)
Best Boy Hybrid - some greenies
BushSteak Hybrid - 1 in garden 1 on deck - some greenies

Next year I am going to try some Garden Gems and another UofF breed (already have the seeds) - I think the Best Boy will get the boot and probably the Brandywine Pink will not be a repeat.

[clkeiper]

Well, I do sympathize with you, but be patient as it is just now time for them to start turning unless you plant short dtm varieties or plant under plastic/glass. I picked 6 bushels today of all different varieties and you might just be behind me a little ways. Some of these were planted in mid May and some in Mid April (in the tunnels) and I am just now getting canning quantities to sell. Most of what I picked today was big beef, marglobe, fouth of july, carbon, JD's special, cherries, yellows and pink slicers. sadly enough all the heirlooms are ripening at the same time. None of my san marzanos look ready.

[Gardeneer]

I have suggested the same thing as Worth did above:

When the time comes and you have 2 or more tomatoes on the vine, near identical color break state.
Then pick one and take it inside and let it ripen on the counter.
Pick the one(s) that has ripen on the vine few days later.
Do a taste test for yourself or invite a friend to taste them also.

That should settle the case for you.

I personally believe that most fruits including tomatoes do not get any help from the mother plant once they have matured.
Genetics and soil chemistry and climate is mostly responsible for how a fruit will taste, sweet, sour , bland or whatever. And the ripening process takes place in the fruit itself.
How many times I have bought rock hard peaches and pears and have them to ripen in the fruits basket to get juicy and sweet ? That has happened many many times.
YMMV

Gardeneer

[Nematode]

You might want to plant some earlier varieties to hold you over until the "good stuff" comes in.
This year I planted small earlies, and hearts to hold me over until the late ones come in.
So far so good.

[rhines81]

OK, so revisiting this thread. I have picked several times different ripening (not fully ripe) "Supersweet" cherry tomatoes and let them ripen in bags. Then when they are ripe, I picked from the same plants, tomatoes that were vine ripened.
Test 1: On four different people (blind taste tested) - hands down vine ripened were by far the best in taste and texture ... the main comment was the tomatoes ripened in the bags had a thicker skin and were not quite as sweet.
Test 2: On three different people, none from the first test - hands down for vine ripened. One out of three gave me the same comment regarding the thicker skin on the bag ripened one.
Test 3: One person - OMFG the vine ripened one was heads and shoulders in taste above the bag ripened one.

I will repeat a similar test with some of my beefsteak types, but they are not quite ready to vine ripen yet, maybe another week, but I do already have a few in bags.

All tomatoes used in the test were all around the same deep red coloration. None were identified to the tasters as to the source.

Edit:
I also suspect that if one is not tasting a tomato variety that is not known for sweetness, the difference of vine ripening might go unnoticed versus bag ripening, but for these cherry tomatoes, the process of ripening was clearly noted in the final taste.

[Hellmanns]

Originally Posted by rhines81

OK, so revisiting this thread. I have picked several times different ripening (not fully ripe) "Supersweet" cherry tomatoes and let them ripen in bags. Then when they are ripe, I picked from the same plants, tomatoes that were vine ripened.
Test 1: On four different people (blind taste tested) - hands down vine ripened were by far the best in taste and texture ... the main comment was the tomatoes ripened in the bags had a thicker skin and were not quite as sweet.
Test 2: On three different people, none from the first test - hands down for vine ripened. One out of three gave me the same comment regarding the thicker skin on the bag ripened one.
Test 3: One person - OMFG the vine ripened one was heads and shoulders in taste above the bag ripened one.

I will repeat a similar test with some of my beefsteak types, but they are not quite ready to vine ripen yet, maybe another week, but I do already have a few in bags.

All tomatoes used in the test were all around the same deep red coloration. None were identified to the tasters as to the source.

Edit:
I also suspect that if one is not tasting a tomato variety that is not known for sweetness, the difference of vine ripening might go unnoticed versus bag ripening, but for these cherry tomatoes, the process of ripening was clearly noted in the final taste.

After many years of intentionally growing highly flavored varieties that's my observances as well. If I want a perfectly flavored mater, I pick it dead vine ripe! I also find the larger fruit that are "bursting at the seams" are more flavorful..

[Worth1]

I dont care for cherry tomatoes that aren't vine ripened.
There is no point in pulling them early.