Landrace tomato????

dokutaaguriin · January 9, 2016

What the heck is a landrace tomato? I have heard the word used in terms of wheat but never for tomatoes!

Jeff

joseph · January 9, 2016

My personal definition is as follows...

Landrace tomatoes are populations of tomatoes that are genetically-diverse and promiscuously-pollinated, and have become acclimatized to the local growing conditions and to the farmer's way of doing things. They are intimately connected to the land, to the farmer, and to the local society. Survival-of-the-fittest is one of the primary selection criteria for landrace crops. If a family doesn't routinely produce fruit in the same garden year after year, then it self-eliminates from the genepool.

Landrace tomatoes are saved not as pure variety XYZ, but as a mix of many (even hundreds) of varieties all jumbled up and criss-crossing with each other.

In my particular garden, my landrace tomatoes share certain traits with each other: They are all short season tomatoes... (A seed catalog would call them 70 DTM or quicker). They average about 3 to 10 ounces. They rarely if ever have BER, or fluting, or cat-facing. However, the color can be red, yellow, orange, brown, green, or striped. The taste has to be acceptable: No cardboard tasting fruits allowed. They tend towards high tolerance for cold and frost. They tend towards an arching vine structure which keeps the fruits out of the mud. Other traits might be more important in other locations or for other farmers.

AlittleSalt · January 9, 2016

+1 Joseph

I agree

**carolyn137** · January 9, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by dokutaaguriin

What the heck is a landrace tomato? I have heard the word used in terms of wheat but never for tomatoes!

Jeff

Jeff, there are several definitions of Landrace tomatoes,Joseph's is one but there are others, especially specific naturally occuring ones, primarily from Asia. I've tried hard to remember the names of some of them, but I guess I didn't try hard enough except one begins with a B. I know, not terribly helpful there.

But here's a link to some definitions and yes, Joseph is there as Joeseph Loftus, I think that's right.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Land..._AUIBigA&dpr=1

My understanding is that a landrace tomato has ONE name but when seeds are planted out one gets different colors and shapes, as in inherently unstable.

Carolyn

Dutch · January 9, 2016

I see merit in Joseph’s landrace concept. I have a section of my garden that I now refer to as my Joseph’s Garden. That is a section of the garden that for the most part is tended by a friend of mine. Her name is Mother Nature. I find it interesting and I am fascinated by all the things she is trying to show me as the season unfolds.
Dutch

joseph · January 9, 2016

The name of my tomatoes is "Lofthouse Short-Season Tomato Landrace".

Here's a photo of what they look like. Any of these, and many more types could come out of a packet of seed.

Worth1 · January 9, 2016

You cant talk about a landrace tomato without talking about landrace in general.
I have as much of a right to my idea of one as anyone else here.
This is going to be long winded so you dome have to read it if you dont want to.
First the term landrace has become a catch word for everyone like Artisan.
So much so that the term in my opinion is useless.
It has become more of a selling point more than anything else.

As defined a landrace can be an animal or plant that has adapted either though breeding or natural selection (or) evolution to adapt to the environment they live in.
Well guess what the human being fits right into this category too.
To prove this when you fill out certain forms they will ask you what (race) you are.
Before the advent of travel and exploration these (races) were pretty much adapted to their environment.
We all know this.
Then travel, exploration and inter mixing of these races started to happen.
This is very obvious in eastern Europe due to the Mongolian conquest.
Now to plants and pigs.
There are what is either called land race or heritage pigs and cows that are being raised.
They have been selectively bred to fit their environment and for their fat to meat ratio.
Maze has had the same thing happen to it.
It took many hundreds if not thousands of years of selective breeding to finally get a variety to grow and produce a crop in north America.
Not only that it took just as many years to develop an ear of maze the size we see today.
All of them arguably coming from one little plant called teosinte AKA Zea.

Beans.
I have in my possession beans that have been supposedly grown for the past several hundreds if not thousands of years in the American Mountains.
Could this not be called a landrace?

Marijuana has its so called landraces too.
They have adapted to flower at a certain amount of daylight and darkness at their latitude.

What is in common with all of these, selective breeding and or natural selection.
Survival of the fittest.
Once this is done regardless of how long it takes then the variety is preserved by way of protecting it from outside influence and culling.
Once a plant or animal is established in a certain environment you wouldn't want to contaminate the gene pool by introducing genes that aren't compatible with that environment.
What you would be doing would be contaminating your so called landrace therefore you wouldn't have a landrace.
You would have a population or melting pot just like we have with people here in the US where we have folks from all over the world living.
Scientifically speaking only, it would not be good for my genes to be mixed with the people of New Guinea.
At least part of the offspring would probably die from diseases my side of the gene pool was not adapted to.

Worth

tyrupp · January 9, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worth1

You cant talk about a landrace tomato without talking about landrace in general.
I have as much of a right to my idea of one as anyone else here.
This is going to be long winded so you dome have to read it if you dont want to.
First the term landrace has become a catch word for everyone like Artisan.
So much so that the term in my opinion is useless.
It has become more of a selling point more than anything else.

As defined a landrace can be an animal or plant that has adapted either though breeding or natural selection (or) evolution to adapt to the environment they live in.
Well guess what the human being fits right into this category too.
To prove this when you fill out certain forms they will ask you what (race) you are.
Before the advent of travel and exploration these (races) were pretty much adapted to their environment.
We all know this.
Then travel, exploration and inter mixing of these races started to happen.
This is very obvious in eastern Europe due to the Mongolian conquest.
Now to plants and pigs.
There are what is either called land race or heritage pigs and cows that are being raised.
They have been selectively bred to fit their environment and for their fat to meat ratio.
Maze has had the same thing happen to it.
It took many hundreds if not thousands of years of selective breeding to finally get a variety to grow and produce a crop in north America.
Not only that it took just as many years to develop an ear of maze the size we see today.
All of them arguably coming from one little plant called teosinte AKA Zea.

Beans.
I have in my possession beans that have been supposedly grown for the past several hundreds if not thousands of years in the American Mountains.
Could this not be called a landrace?

Marijuana has its so called landraces too.
They have adapted to flower at a certain amount of daylight and darkness at their latitude.

What is in common with all of these, selective breeding and or natural selection.
Survival of the fittest.
Once this is done regardless of how long it takes then the variety is preserved by way of protecting it from outside influence and culling.
Once a plant or animal is established in a certain environment you wouldn't want to contaminate the gene pool by introducing genes that aren't compatible with that environment.
What you would be doing would be contaminating your so called landrace therefore you wouldn't have a landrace.
You would have a population or melting pot just like we have with people here in the US where we have folks from all over the world living.
Scientifically speaking only, it would not be good for my genes to be mixed with the people of New Guinea.
At least part of the offspring would probably die from diseases my side of the gene pool was not adapted to.
Or you would have hybrid vigor from the New Guinea non mutt side ?

Worth

Fred Hempel · January 10, 2016

Here are my comments, regarding your comments.

1. I disagree that "landrace" has become a "catch word for everyone". Frankly, there are not many people using this term. And very few people are selling seeds using the term. I decided to use it because it was the best term I could find to describe some things I have of value, that are not true-breeding or hybrid varieties. For example: the Mareko Fana pepper population that was brought to me, as a landrace, by an Ethiopian-American friend. I have decided to sell it as a landrace, instead of trying to select a true-breeding variety from the population.

2. I would argue that "protection" of a landrace is almost a bit contradictory. Certainly landraces can be (and need to be) defined, particularly in cases where a landrace is being sold or shared. But, for many -- myself included, the landrace concept implicitly accepts that there is a somewhat open-ended genetic definition for a landrace and the option for addition of new contributors to a landrace. In other words, one of the advantages of a landrace is the genetic diversity that it contains, and so it seems counter-intuitive to arbitrarily limit the injection of new genetic diversity into a landrace.

For example, I have squash landraces that I am currently isolating from outside genetic influences -- because I am somewhat more narrowly defining the landrace. However, in the future I can see myself wanting the option of bringing an exciting new variety into the landrace. At that time, however, I would probably stop selling the landrace to others, because there would be a period where the landrace would be very difficult to adequately describe to people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worth1

You cant talk about a landrace tomato without talking about landrace in general.
I have as much of a right to my idea of one as anyone else here.
This is going to be long winded so you dome have to read it if you dont want to.
First the term landrace has become a catch word for everyone like Artisan.
So much so that the term in my opinion is useless.
It has become more of a selling point more than anything else.

As defined a landrace can be an animal or plant that has adapted either though breeding or natural selection (or) evolution to adapt to the environment they live in.
Well guess what the human being fits right into this category too.
To prove this when you fill out certain forms they will ask you what (race) you are.
Before the advent of travel and exploration these (races) were pretty much adapted to their environment.
We all know this.
Then travel, exploration and inter mixing of these races started to happen.
This is very obvious in eastern Europe due to the Mongolian conquest.
Now to plants and pigs.
There are what is either called land race or heritage pigs and cows that are being raised.
They have been selectively bred to fit their environment and for their fat to meat ratio.
Maze has had the same thing happen to it.
It took many hundreds if not thousands of years of selective breeding to finally get a variety to grow and produce a crop in north America.
Not only that it took just as many years to develop an ear of maze the size we see today.
All of them arguably coming from one little plant called teosinte AKA Zea.

Beans.
I have in my possession beans that have been supposedly grown for the past several hundreds if not thousands of years in the American Mountains.
Could this not be called a landrace?

Marijuana has its so called landraces too.
They have adapted to flower at a certain amount of daylight and darkness at their latitude.

What is in common with all of these, selective breeding and or natural selection.
Survival of the fittest.
Once this is done regardless of how long it takes then the variety is preserved by way of protecting it from outside influence and culling.
Once a plant or animal is established in a certain environment you wouldn't want to contaminate the gene pool by introducing genes that aren't compatible with that environment.
What you would be doing would be contaminating your so called landrace therefore you wouldn't have a landrace.
You would have a population or melting pot just like we have with people here in the US where we have folks from all over the world living.
Scientifically speaking only, it would not be good for my genes to be mixed with the people of New Guinea.
At least part of the offspring would probably die from diseases my side of the gene pool was not adapted to.

Worth

Cole_Robbie · January 10, 2016

I was thinking of all the native varieties on islands across the Pacific. If it turns out that they did get to the islands by floating there, we should call them "sea races."

Worth1 · January 10, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

I was thinking of all the native varieties on islands across the Pacific. If it turns out that they did get to the islands by floating there, we should call them "sea races."

Don't forget the stuff that floats in by air.
Air Races.

Worth

Aerial · January 10, 2016

Oh my, my yard is a habitat for air races weeds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worth1

Don't forget the stuff that floats in by air.
Air Races.

Worth1 · January 9, 2016

"Or you would have hybrid vigor from the New Guinea non mutt side ?"

You quoted inside my quote but I found it.

This is true but I tried to be very very careful not to sound like a crack pot Nazi looking for the master race.

Worth

tyrupp · January 9, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worth1

"Or you would have hybrid vigor from the New Guinea non mutt side ?"

You quoted inside my quote but I found it.

This is true but I tried to be very very careful not to sound like a crack pot Nazi looking for the master race.

Worth

Plants do not care about what you or I think

Worth1 · January 9, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyrupp

Plants do not care about what you or I think

I dont know what to think.

Worth

January 9, 2016	#1
dokutaaguriin Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Alberta, Canada Z3a Posts: 905	Landrace tomato???? What the heck is a landrace tomato? I have heard the word used in terms of wheat but never for tomatoes! Jeff

January 9, 2016	#2
joseph Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2013 Location: Cache Valley, N/E of The Great Salt Lake Posts: 1,244	My personal definition is as follows... Landrace tomatoes are populations of tomatoes that are genetically-diverse and promiscuously-pollinated, and have become acclimatized to the local growing conditions and to the farmer's way of doing things. They are intimately connected to the land, to the farmer, and to the local society. Survival-of-the-fittest is one of the primary selection criteria for landrace crops. If a family doesn't routinely produce fruit in the same garden year after year, then it self-eliminates from the genepool. Landrace tomatoes are saved not as pure variety XYZ, but as a mix of many (even hundreds) of varieties all jumbled up and criss-crossing with each other. In my particular garden, my landrace tomatoes share certain traits with each other: They are all short season tomatoes... (A seed catalog would call them 70 DTM or quicker). They average about 3 to 10 ounces. They rarely if ever have BER, or fluting, or cat-facing. However, the color can be red, yellow, orange, brown, green, or striped. The taste has to be acceptable: No cardboard tasting fruits allowed. They tend towards high tolerance for cold and frost. They tend towards an arching vine structure which keeps the fruits out of the mud. Other traits might be more important in other locations or for other farmers. Last edited by joseph; January 9, 2016 at 04:11 AM.

January 9, 2016	#5
Dutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: S.E. Wisconsin Zone 5b Posts: 1,831	I see merit in Joseph’s landrace concept. I have a section of my garden that I now refer to as my Joseph’s Garden. That is a section of the garden that for the most part is tended by a friend of mine. Her name is Mother Nature. I find it interesting and I am fascinated by all the things she is trying to show me as the season unfolds. Dutch __________________ "Discretion is the better part of valor" Charles Churchill The intuitive mind is a gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. But we have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. (paraphrased) Albert Einstein I come from a long line of sod busters, spanning back several centuries.

January 9, 2016	#3
AlittleSalt BANNED FOR LIFE Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 13,333	+1 Joseph I agree

January 9, 2016	#7
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	You cant talk about a landrace tomato without talking about landrace in general. I have as much of a right to my idea of one as anyone else here. This is going to be long winded so you dome have to read it if you dont want to. First the term landrace has become a catch word for everyone like Artisan. So much so that the term in my opinion is useless. It has become more of a selling point more than anything else. As defined a landrace can be an animal or plant that has adapted either though breeding or natural selection (or) evolution to adapt to the environment they live in. Well guess what the human being fits right into this category too. To prove this when you fill out certain forms they will ask you what (race) you are. Before the advent of travel and exploration these (races) were pretty much adapted to their environment. We all know this. Then travel, exploration and inter mixing of these races started to happen. This is very obvious in eastern Europe due to the Mongolian conquest. Now to plants and pigs. There are what is either called land race or heritage pigs and cows that are being raised. They have been selectively bred to fit their environment and for their fat to meat ratio. Maze has had the same thing happen to it. It took many hundreds if not thousands of years of selective breeding to finally get a variety to grow and produce a crop in north America. Not only that it took just as many years to develop an ear of maze the size we see today. All of them arguably coming from one little plant called teosinte AKA Zea. Beans. I have in my possession beans that have been supposedly grown for the past several hundreds if not thousands of years in the American Mountains. Could this not be called a landrace? Marijuana has its so called landraces too. They have adapted to flower at a certain amount of daylight and darkness at their latitude. What is in common with all of these, selective breeding and or natural selection. Survival of the fittest. Once this is done regardless of how long it takes then the variety is preserved by way of protecting it from outside influence and culling. Once a plant or animal is established in a certain environment you wouldn't want to contaminate the gene pool by introducing genes that aren't compatible with that environment. What you would be doing would be contaminating your so called landrace therefore you wouldn't have a landrace. You would have a population or melting pot just like we have with people here in the US where we have folks from all over the world living. Scientifically speaking only, it would not be good for my genes to be mixed with the people of New Guinea. At least part of the offspring would probably die from diseases my side of the gene pool was not adapted to. Worth

January 10, 2016	#10
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	I was thinking of all the native varieties on islands across the Pacific. If it turns out that they did get to the islands by floating there, we should call them "sea races."