Get a Customs/USDA Permit

brokenbar · February 3, 2016

Okay...I am good. just traveling pretty steady. No garden. Husband turned the acreage over to our Handyman & his family (who are supporting 4 families and still give all extra to Catholic Church feed the poor charity.) My Husband lived my life for 40 years so now it's his turn and he wants to see everything he can before the "clock runs out"

He is as big an archaeology buff as I am.

Okay...if you are trading/buying/purloining seeds from other countries you need to know the following:

My Kid got busted by US Customs. He had seeds coming from Spain. He had had two other shipments from other countries "intercepted" by Customs in the last 7 months. This means they opened the package, took the seeds and left him a nasty little note. I guess the third time was the charm as they contacted him by phone and told him he had to turn himself in to local police station. Meanwhile, the Fellow who sent the seeds from Spain was contacted by US Customs & Spanish Customs, placed on a "known violators" list, threatened with big fines and jail time (get real...show me the "Seed Smuggler Statute"...) and otherwise terrorized. My Kid was eventually let go with warnings about all kinds of nasty repercussions if he continued to bring the seeds in illegally. This kind of slays me as I did this for 20 years and never had one intercepted whereas my Kid has probably never done it more than 5 or 6 times...) A fellow in Hawaii recently opened his seed packet that came in the mail and there was a warrant inside...

So...go get a permit. It is free. (HAHAHAHAHA...FREE IS THE ONLY EASY OR GOOD THING ABOUT IT.) Go here: https://epermits.aphis.usda.gov/epermits

You want to fill out "PPQ Form 587" which is a permit to import small amounts of seeds without requiring a phytosanitary permit. When you fill out the form online, you will receive a "Level 1" permit. You need a "level 2" permit to import and you can fill that out online but then you must go to a "USDA Field Office" within 48 hours of filling the form out online and show legal ID.

Be prepared for a very big pain-in-the-butsky once you are upgraded. Their site and the software sucks...It took my Kid about a week to get the site to work, at least 5 phone calls to USDA and the software gurus to figure out how to actually get the seed permit granted and secure shipping labels.

You can read all about this here: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...aZ73s9xRRbG-Pw

Do you see the length of the link above? This typifies anything having to do with the Government.

May you all have a GREAT 2016 season and I hope everyone remains healthy and reasonably happy and sane (?) Mary

Deborah · February 3, 2016

So there you are! I posted wondering what had happened to you as I really liked your posts about cooking and gardening. Sheesh, I hope your kid stays out of that mess! Hang in there and I hope to see your great posts again.
Deborah

peebee · February 3, 2016

Do we need this permit if we are to, say, just bring in some packets in our suitcase for personal use back here? It's very confusing, I've researched before in the past and there is conflicting info about this. Some say its ok if for personal use, some say it is absolutely forbidden and I notice the signs all over the airport upon arrival before you hit customs, that to bring in any meat, poultry, and vegetation products are illegal and will be confiscated, on top of that you may be fined up to $25,000.

brokenbar · February 3, 2016

It takes a whole other permit called a "phytosanitary" to bring them in when you travel...I will never admit that I have brought seeds back from any country

and I would NEVER bring them in my carry-on because those dang "fruit sniffing dogs" might catch a whiff so I always figured that were a person to do it that seeds packed/hidden/disguised in checked baggage were much more likely to be overlooked but I am sure I am no expert

so my advise counts for nothing...

Customs has ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE OF HUMOR...take it from me. They scared the crapola out of my Kid. And what bothers me the most is that when you consider what "FLIES, CRAWLS, WALKS, SWIMS, DRIVES, across our "kitchen colander of a border" every minute of every day it really is a HUGE joke to snivel about seeds. 10 million Syrians with no passports, no drivers licensees, no birth certificates no vaccinations and having lived their entire lives with no medical or sanitary care is OKEEDOKEE but tomato or chili seeds are THE DEVIL... and as I am reasonably intelligent, I do understand the "logic" behind the laws but I still think they are stupid when you look at all the foreigners selling seeds on Ebay, Amazon, Etsy, Alibaba and Aliexpress from every hooch in every third world country as well as other countries it really makes the point moot. As with all things governmental RIDICULOUS.

Allisa · February 3, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by brokenbar

I always figured that were a person to do it that seeds packed/hidden/disguised in checked baggage were much more likely to be overlooked but I am sure I am no expert so my advise counts for nothing...

I would not risk. They will confiscate it at the Customs and then in one month my friend received a letter ordering her to go to a court before a judge and pay a big fine. A sad thing was that she had no idea that there was something forbidden in her luggage, her friends wanted to surprise her and put it in when she didn't see it.

Deborah · February 3, 2016

My father was first a Border Patrol agent and then went into U.S. Customs. Mean as a snake and no sense of humor. As I look back at age 63 I realize anew what a piece of sh he was. And yes, immigration laws are a JOKE!

brokenbar · February 3, 2016

When I think about what I have to do to get back into this country (as I live outside it and travel the world) it just cracks me up. But if you are "Sylvester Stallone" with your entourage, you are whisked to the front of the line (the line I stood in for nearly 45 minutes coming into the US from Jordan) and your passport is barely glanced at and it is all over for you in about 45 seconds...it REALLY TICKS ME OFF.

My Kid says once you actually have the permit and figure out how to use the stupid APHIS site, it is pretty easy. The permit & the shipping labels are sent to you as PDF so you can just send a copy of the files to whomever you are getting seeds from. They need to read the instructions because my Kid says they are very explicit as to how the seeds are packaged, labeled etc. If I understood him correctly, the seeds are first sent to a USDA authorized port (he chose San Francisco) and then after Customs opens the package and examines the permit and the seeds, it is re-sealed and your shipping information (which my kid says the seed sender has to put inside) is then affixed to the outside of the package and the seeds are then sent on to you. He also advises that getting the actual permit approved, getting the shipping labels approved takes about a week. So the entire process means you probably should start the process a year before you need them

because it isn't happening quick.

Deborah · February 3, 2016

To cheer you up a bit, he would brag about the celebs he arrested.

brokenbar · February 3, 2016

Well...that makes me happier! Actually, Mr. Stallone just go popped bringing HGH & anabolic steroids into Australia. Australia REALLY has no sense of humor. Because they are an island, it is almost impossible to send seeds to someone there. I have "heard" that sending them in a greeting card is the most likely way to get them to someone living in Australia. I have friends who live in Perth (I will actually be seeing them in June in Vietnam) but they tell me all the time about how strict Australia is about everything but I just read that Australia is about to relax the gun laws given the level of Islamic Terrorism on Socialist countries they (Isis, Al Qaeda, etc) consider to be "soft" targets. Australia's current gun laws may well leave you a sitting duck with a letter opener to defend yourself with...

**carolyn137** · February 3, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by brokenbar

Well...that makes me happier! Actually, Mr. Stallone just go popped bringing HGH & anabolic steroids into Australia. Australia REALLY has no sense of humor. Because they are an island, it is almost impossible to send seeds to someone there. I have "heard" that sending them in a greeting card is the most likely way to get them to someone living in Australia. I have friends who live in Perth (I will actually be seeing them in June in Vietnam) but they tell me all the time about how strict Australia is about everything but I just read that Australia is about to relax the gun laws given the level of Islamic Terrorism on Socialist countries they (Isis, Al Qaeda, etc) consider to be "soft" targets. Australia's current gun laws may well leave you a sitting duck with a letter opener to defend yourself with...

Great to see you back posting Mary and I'm not going to mention politics or anything else like that in my post, but here's what I want to share with you and all.

In the past year I've had seeds sent to me from

italy
Greece
Bulgaria
France
Slovenia
Germany
Romania
Denmark
The Czech Republic

......and never a problem and maybe I should include Canada as well, and I know I've forgotten some other countries aswell.

As for Spain, the person I'm in contact with was having problems selling and sending within the EU b/c of EU restrictions so what he did was to join SSE and now lists 73 varieties in the annual Yearbook and I was on the phone with someone here in the US just today who has received them from him, no customs label and all was well. I expect the same when he sends to me.

Going in the other direction is more of a problem. There are just two countries that have import seed restictions. The Netherlands b'c of all the many companies there that breed tomato varieties. And Australia b'c they have a huge problem with Potato Spindle virus .

both countries require a phytosanitary Certificate to accompany seeds coming in and those certificates are VERY expensive so are primarily of a concern to bulk seeds coming in.

The SSE Annual Yearbook describes everything you have said above and links to where to get the small grower license.

Just think about Tumble Weed, I dare you, that came from Europe and what is still called a noxious weed/ And one of the reasons the US started to do but never did was to try and control ALL seeds coming to the US in case they had noxious weeds along with them.

Again, great to see you posting and stick around a bit and when you travel please take a tablet or laptop or expensive iphone with you, that's if you want to follow the tomato and/or pepper news.

Carolyn

twillis2252 · February 3, 2016

Carolyn,
Most of the discussions concerning shipments were I assume the USPS and the respective countries postal service. Does anyone have information concerning difficulties with Fedex and UPS?

**carolyn137** · February 5, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by twillis2252

Carolyn,
Most of the discussions concerning shipments were I assume the USPS and the respective countries postal service. Does anyone have information concerning difficulties with Fedex and UPS?

I know that Fed Ex is international but not sure about UPS and I have no idea at all how customs deals with them.

What I do know is that I had to sign some legal documents and the papers were sent to me in a Fed Ex envelope and that the postage was horribly high, and no it was not sent o/n or one day. etc.

Not seeds I know and only here in the US, whatever.Now that I think of it they could have used USPS registered so you have to sign for it, which I have done.

Carolyn

brokenbar · February 3, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Great to see you back posting Mary and I'm not going to mention politics or anything else like that in my post, but here's what I want to share with you and all.

In the past year I've had seeds sent to me from

italy
Greece
Bulgaria
France
Slovenia
Germany
Romania
Denmark
The Czech Republic

......and never a problem and maybe I should include Canada as well, and I know I've forgotten some other countries aswell.

As for Spain, the person I'm in contact with was having problems selling and sending within the EU b/c of EU restrictions so what he did was to join SSE and now lists 73 varieties in the annual Yearbook and I was on the phone with someone here in the US just today who has received them from him, no customs label and all was well. I expect the same when he sends to me.

Going in the other direction is more of a problem. There are just two countries that have import seed restictions. The Netherlands b'c of all the many companies there that breed tomato varieties. And Australia b'c they have a huge problem with Potato Spindle virus .

both countries require a phytosanitary Certificate to accompany seeds coming in and those certificates are VERY expensive so are primarily of a concern to bulk seeds coming in.

The SSE Annual Yearbook describes everything you have said above and links to where to get the small grower license.

Just think about Tumble Weed, I dare you, that came from Europe and what is still called a noxious weed/ And one of the reasons the US started to do but never did was to try and control ALL seeds coming to the US in case they had noxious weeds along with them.

Again, great to see you posting and stick around a bit and when you travel please take a tablet or laptop or expensive iphone with you, that's if you want to follow the tomato and/or pepper news.

Carolyn

Hey Caroline! No politics but since I come from the "Wild West" certainly no surprise! I don't know if Customs is all of a sudden looking harder for seeds or what... Someone else just told me they got their shipment taken. I am like you, I have swapped seeds for years and have had no problem.

When in Wyoming, if you want to hunt in any of the mountains you have to take "certified weed free" hay for your horses...and you known this "certified" hay is going to cost you A LOT more...

I figure Wyoming has no weeds because the wind blew EVERY SINGLE DAY and all the weed seed went to Colorado...Glad you are feeling better Caroline!

Deborah · February 3, 2016

Scary!

pmcgrady · February 3, 2016

What kind of seeds were being sent? Not that's any of my business...

February 3, 2016	#1
brokenbar Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: South Of The Border Posts: 1,169	Get a Customs/USDA Permit Okay...I am good. just traveling pretty steady. No garden. Husband turned the acreage over to our Handyman & his family (who are supporting 4 families and still give all extra to Catholic Church feed the poor charity.) My Husband lived my life for 40 years so now it's his turn and he wants to see everything he can before the "clock runs out" He is as big an archaeology buff as I am. Okay...if you are trading/buying/purloining seeds from other countries you need to know the following: My Kid got busted by US Customs. He had seeds coming from Spain. He had had two other shipments from other countries "intercepted" by Customs in the last 7 months. This means they opened the package, took the seeds and left him a nasty little note. I guess the third time was the charm as they contacted him by phone and told him he had to turn himself in to local police station. Meanwhile, the Fellow who sent the seeds from Spain was contacted by US Customs & Spanish Customs, placed on a "known violators" list, threatened with big fines and jail time (get real...show me the "Seed Smuggler Statute"...) and otherwise terrorized. My Kid was eventually let go with warnings about all kinds of nasty repercussions if he continued to bring the seeds in illegally. This kind of slays me as I did this for 20 years and never had one intercepted whereas my Kid has probably never done it more than 5 or 6 times...) A fellow in Hawaii recently opened his seed packet that came in the mail and there was a warrant inside... So...go get a permit. It is free. (HAHAHAHAHA...FREE IS THE ONLY EASY OR GOOD THING ABOUT IT.) Go here: https://epermits.aphis.usda.gov/epermits You want to fill out "PPQ Form 587" which is a permit to import small amounts of seeds without requiring a phytosanitary permit. When you fill out the form online, you will receive a "Level 1" permit. You need a "level 2" permit to import and you can fill that out online but then you must go to a "USDA Field Office" within 48 hours of filling the form out online and show legal ID. Be prepared for a very big pain-in-the-butsky once you are upgraded. Their site and the software sucks...It took my Kid about a week to get the site to work, at least 5 phone calls to USDA and the software gurus to figure out how to actually get the seed permit granted and secure shipping labels. You can read all about this here: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...aZ73s9xRRbG-Pw Do you see the length of the link above? This typifies anything having to do with the Government. May you all have a GREAT 2016 season and I hope everyone remains healthy and reasonably happy and sane (?) Mary __________________ "If I'm not getting dirty, I'm not having a good time."

February 3, 2016	#2
Deborah Riding The Crazy Train Again Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: San Marcos, California Posts: 2,562	So there you are! I posted wondering what had happened to you as I really liked your posts about cooking and gardening. Sheesh, I hope your kid stays out of that mess! Hang in there and I hope to see your great posts again. Deborah __________________ "The righteous one cares for the needs of his animal". Proverbs 12:10

February 3, 2016	#4
brokenbar Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: South Of The Border Posts: 1,169	It takes a whole other permit called a "phytosanitary" to bring them in when you travel...I will never admit that I have brought seeds back from any country and I would NEVER bring them in my carry-on because those dang "fruit sniffing dogs" might catch a whiff so I always figured that were a person to do it that seeds packed/hidden/disguised in checked baggage were much more likely to be overlooked but I am sure I am no expert so my advise counts for nothing... Customs has ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE OF HUMOR...take it from me. They scared the crapola out of my Kid. And what bothers me the most is that when you consider what "FLIES, CRAWLS, WALKS, SWIMS, DRIVES, across our "kitchen colander of a border" every minute of every day it really is a HUGE joke to snivel about seeds. 10 million Syrians with no passports, no drivers licensees, no birth certificates no vaccinations and having lived their entire lives with no medical or sanitary care is OKEEDOKEE but tomato or chili seeds are THE DEVIL... and as I am reasonably intelligent, I do understand the "logic" behind the laws but I still think they are stupid when you look at all the foreigners selling seeds on Ebay, Amazon, Etsy, Alibaba and Aliexpress from every hooch in every third world country as well as other countries it really makes the point moot. As with all things governmental RIDICULOUS. __________________ "If I'm not getting dirty, I'm not having a good time."

February 3, 2016	#6
Deborah Riding The Crazy Train Again Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: San Marcos, California Posts: 2,562	My father was first a Border Patrol agent and then went into U.S. Customs. Mean as a snake and no sense of humor. As I look back at age 63 I realize anew what a piece of sh he was. And yes, immigration laws are a JOKE! __________________ "The righteous one cares for the needs of his animal". Proverbs 12:10

February 3, 2016	#7
brokenbar Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: South Of The Border Posts: 1,169	When I think about what I have to do to get back into this country (as I live outside it and travel the world) it just cracks me up. But if you are "Sylvester Stallone" with your entourage, you are whisked to the front of the line (the line I stood in for nearly 45 minutes coming into the US from Jordan) and your passport is barely glanced at and it is all over for you in about 45 seconds...it REALLY TICKS ME OFF. My Kid says once you actually have the permit and figure out how to use the stupid APHIS site, it is pretty easy. The permit & the shipping labels are sent to you as PDF so you can just send a copy of the files to whomever you are getting seeds from. They need to read the instructions because my Kid says they are very explicit as to how the seeds are packaged, labeled etc. If I understood him correctly, the seeds are first sent to a USDA authorized port (he chose San Francisco) and then after Customs opens the package and examines the permit and the seeds, it is re-sealed and your shipping information (which my kid says the seed sender has to put inside) is then affixed to the outside of the package and the seeds are then sent on to you. He also advises that getting the actual permit approved, getting the shipping labels approved takes about a week. So the entire process means you probably should start the process a year before you need them because it isn't happening quick. __________________ "If I'm not getting dirty, I'm not having a good time."

February 3, 2016	#3
peebee Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Southern CA Posts: 1,714	Do we need this permit if we are to, say, just bring in some packets in our suitcase for personal use back here? It's very confusing, I've researched before in the past and there is conflicting info about this. Some say its ok if for personal use, some say it is absolutely forbidden and I notice the signs all over the airport upon arrival before you hit customs, that to bring in any meat, poultry, and vegetation products are illegal and will be confiscated, on top of that you may be fined up to $25,000.

February 3, 2016	#11
twillis2252 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: SC & NC Posts: 258	Carolyn, Most of the discussions concerning shipments were I assume the USPS and the respective countries postal service. Does anyone have information concerning difficulties with Fedex and UPS?

February 3, 2016	#14
Deborah Riding The Crazy Train Again Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: San Marcos, California Posts: 2,562	Scary! __________________ "The righteous one cares for the needs of his animal". Proverbs 12:10

February 3, 2016	#15
pmcgrady Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 1,836	What kind of seeds were being sent? Not that's any of my business...