Heart shaped Brandywine, RL or PL?

[JosephineRose]

Potting up my seedlings today, and I realized one of my three heart-shaped Brandywine seedlings is a potato leaf.

Tatiana's site says RL, but there is not much info.

I've never stumbled on a mutation like that before. I was only going to grow out one of these seedlings, but now I think I have plant one of each… I can't resist.

[Al@NC]

Where did you get your seeds?

Al

[JosephineRose]

Purchased online.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by JosephineRose

Potting up my seedlings today, and I realized one of my three heart-shaped Brandywine seedlings is a potato leaf.

Tatiana's site says RL, but there is not much info.

I've never stumbled on a mutation like that before. I was only going to grow out one of these seedlings, but now I think I have plant one of each… I can't resist.

Which Brandywine are you referring to,the pink,the red,the yellow, etc.?

And I ask b/c it makes a BIG difference as to leaf form,the pink being PL and the red being RL..

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...b=General_Info

The one above is red, so should be RL.

What did your seed pack say, and what did the online place where you bought your seeds say?

Carolyn, also noting that it's hard to make conclusions when growing just a couple of plants b'c you don 't know if it was a stray seed that got into a pack,that has happened.

[JosephineRose]

I'm assuming it is the RL Red Brandywine based on that very listing. Then again, would it be possible to have a heart shaped variety of any tomato with potato leaves?


I got my seeds from mariseeds. The online description on her page does not reference leaf type for this particular plant. I have messaged her.


The packet the seeds came in is a simple envelope, hand printed, not formally printed with a description of the type included. A few other vendors do the same.

It occurred to me that it may be a stray seed from some random PL variety. All the more reason to grow it out and see what I get I'd think. It's like a little bonus mystery tomato!


My question — and Carolyn, thank you for replying to the thread because I'm certain you will have the answer — is what if it is a mutation? What problems could be expected at grow out?

Thanks very much.

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Which Brandywine are you referring to,the pink,the red,the yellow, etc.?

And I ask b/c it makes a BIG difference as to leaf form,the pink being PL and the red being RL..

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...b=General_Info

The one above is red, so should be RL.

What did your seed pack say, and what did the online place where you bought your seeds say?

Carolyn, also noting that it's hard to make conclusions when growing just a couple of plants b'c you don 't know if it was a stray seed that got into a pack,that has happened.

[ginger2778]

Several heart shaped PL plants. One that comes to mind is Heshpole.named for its shape and leaves.
He= heart
Sh= shape
Po= potato
Le = leafed

Even if it is a mutation, I doubt you will encounter problems, but don't please pass on the seeds because you dont know what it is.
It could also be a cross with a RL, PL, and instead the F2 you will average 25% PL plants.

[JosephineRose]

Good point.

That brings up a secondary question about the origins of new varieties… how long is safe for a grow out?

I'm thinking of the rise of the well-loved Girl Girl's Weird Thing, for example. My understanding is that arose from a mutation in the field… it was supposed to be Green Zebra. Isn't that also how several of Brad Gates' varieties came to be?

So how many generations make it a safe mutation?

Originally Posted by ginger2778

Several heart shaped PL plants. One that comes to mind is Heshpole.named for its shape and leaves.
He= heart
Sh= shape
Po= potato
Le = leafed

Even if it is a mutation, I doubt you will encounter problems, but don't please pass on the seeds because you dont know what it is.
It could also be a cross with a RL, PL, and instead the F2 you will average 25% PL plants.

[JosephineRose]

Adding that I copy your message on F2 generation. Just found the genetics thread and read the stats.

Since I bought the seeds, I lean toward the likelihood that it's a stray. Still, I checked my notes and I started three seeds and had three come up, two were RL, 1 PL.

Interesting, should it be a case of cross pollination or mutation. Based on everyone's reply I'm gathering the following:

1) Most likely a stray.
2) Next most likely explanation is cross pollination.
3) Least likely is a mutation.

Am I way off here? Should be interesting to see what I get at grow out.

Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by JosephineRose

Good point.

That brings up a secondary question about the origins of new varieties… how long is safe for a grow out?

I'm thinking of the rise of the well-loved Girl Girl's Weird Thing, for example. My understanding is that arose from a mutation in the field… it was supposed to be Green Zebra. Isn't that also how several of Brad Gates' varieties came to be?

So how many generations make it a safe mutation?

You planted only 3 seeds,two plants had RL foliage and one had PL foliage and I assume the fruits were the same on both the RL or PL plants,but if these are just seedlings now,not yet mature fruits,it's too early to make any conclusions.

With regard to leaf form and mutations,it takes two separate mutations to go from homozygous dominant RL,that means two identical genes,then to heterzygous, and RL is stil dominant,to homozygous recessive,that's PL,and the likelihood of that happening is remote.

If it were a single spontaneous mutation in the DNA of the seed,yes that could happen as well,and such mutations are permanent and stable.

But at this point I'm thinking more of a possible cross polllination that occurred with seeds you received,that gave you the PL plant. And that is not all that uncommon with purchased seeds,and depends on whether a vendor grows their own plants for seed production or buys bulk seeds elsewhere,or sub contracts out.

Marianne Jones and her companion grow all they offer for seeds,last I knew. But a couple of years ago they lost almost all of their plants due to weather,so that complicates the issue fo rme, not knowing if they did purchase seed or not.

Call me confused,but I still am not sure if you bought seeds that were for the RL Red Brandywine or the pink PL one.

Carolyn

[Al@NC]

The reason I asked where you got the seeds is so that we could determine what the leaf is supposed to be. I didn't know if it was from a seed offer here or what. There have been some new varieties offered lately.

Al

[kath]

I grew Brandywine, Heart-Shaped from Marianna in 2011 and 2012 and the plants were all RL.

[JosephineRose]

Originally Posted by kath

I grew Brandywine, Heart-Shaped from Marianna in 2011 and 2012 and the plants were all RL.

Thanks Kath!

I find this to be a happy accident, whatever my mystery PL seedling is.

[kath]

Originally Posted by JosephineRose

Thanks Kath!

I find this to be a happy accident, whatever my mystery PL seedling is.

You're welcome! I feel the same way about my PL Early Annie.

[JosephineRose]

And here is my not so little mystery PL plant today. I'm really pleased with how well all my tomatoes have been doing in the Earthboxes this year.

[JosephineRose]

The mystery plant is doing well. It is getting very large and has several megablossoms. The first fruit has set and is growing rather quickly.

Mystery PL plant on 6-7-16:


First fruit formed:


Second fruit forming (in the shadow):


So far, these don't look heart shaped.