Highlights from an interesting gardening season

[nctomatoman]

I bit off an awful lot this summer - over 170 plants in containers - mix of 5 gallon grow bags and straw bales - indeterminates primarly for five reasons: check out some mysteries, fresh seed of some favorites, grow out the new hybrids in the dwarf project I made last year, grow outs of some important to me as a source - check on going back as far as I could in some cases, grow some family heirlooms shared with me throughout my travels, and grow out for pollen for more crosses - so no focus on optimizing yield. Dwarfs - grow out most recent releases, check on some that did not do well last year, initial look through F2s in new crosses, and check out some work others have done in the cherry dwarf area.

Indeterminates

1. The mysteries - last year I had a volunteer show up behind my garden that had regular leaf foliage and small green when ripe cherry tomatoes with an orange overtone. I started some seed and grew out a potato leaf and regular leaf example. The potato leaf gave 1 ounce large cherries that were green when ripe with a purplish overtone - very good flavor. The regular leaf gave tomatoes that were yellow when ripe with purplish overtones. This result didn't help solve the mystery, but there are now two interesting leads for uniquely colored large cherries. Last year I also had a gold tomato volunteer show up near my composter - I grew out one plant and the fruit were the color of Sun Gold hybrid, but a bit more variable in size and tending to oval - flavor very good. I grew out one plant of Caitlin's Lucky Stripe from Bill Minkey - the origin of this was a yellow tomato with vertical pink stripes on a potato leaf plant grown at another garden many years ago, as Little Lucky. I've found various things in this through the years, but the one this year was nice - a medium sized, oval - not quite heart - pink tomato with vertical green and gold stripes, delicious, potato leaf. Large Lucky Red - out of a red fruit from Lucky Cross some years ago. Bill Minkey again sent me seed - it often grows pink - but this year I got large oblate very tasty red potato leaf fruit, which was the goal.

2. Favorites grown out for fresh seed - the following all did well: Aker's West Virginia, Andrew Rahart Jumbo Red, Lillian's Yellow Heirloom, Gallo Plum, Hege German Pink, Eva Purple Ball, Opalka. Dester did not do well - I am attempting a late harvest from a cutting.

3. Family heirlooms shared with me - Uncle Joe - unusual smaller red hearts, in the 1-2 ounce range, good flavor, regular leaf plant. Maris Family - very Gallo Plum and/or Opalka like - regular leaf, large red paste type, good flavor and productivity. Yusopov - vigorous regular leaf plant, large oblate tasty pink fruit. Walt Swolka - tall droopy plant, lots of medium pink meaty hearts, delicious. Aunt Edna - medium sized red globe to heart shaped, juicy, tasty, regular leaf plant. Springston Heirloom - large irregular meaty pink sweet fruit, regular leaf plant. Abraham Brown - got TSW disease, but potato leaf, large oblate, I assume it would be pink - saved seed from one green fruit that the deer ate on the sick plant. Jenny - named for a friend, she got it as Lillian's Yellow from Tatiana (she is in contact with her about it) but it grew just like Kimberley - early, medium small sweet red fruit. Czech - from a friend - tall regular leaf indet. plant, large red cherry, a machine, but firm and not tasty. Mama's Huge Orange - did not do well - will try again next year - wilted severely early on. Abraham Lincoln from a friend who got it from a source that called it the real thing - tall plant, large oblate PINK fruit, so not the real deal. Flavor not at all good.

4. New F1s for the dwarf project - got lots of fruit and seed from hybrids Teensy, Reddy, Scary, Burly, Betty, Speckly, Tiggy, Roddy, Sissy, Arcky, Artsy, Fishy, Sandy, Emmy, Sorry, Worry, Leafy, Dummy, Priddy, Addy and Acey. Some tasted very good, a few were surprising in color - refer to the Dwarf area for more info.

5. A return to old seed to check on how a few are doing today vs what they were like early on. The three Cherokee Purple (a few from seed as old as 14 years, and only twice removed from seed sent to me by Mr Green in 1990), four Cherokee Chocolate and one of the Cherokee Green were superb and made me realize how different some of those varieties being sold today are quite changed, likely due to inadvertent crossing and/or selection. One of the Cherokee Green turned out red (10 year old seed), but the one from 16 year old seed was superb. I also grew out three selections of Little Lucky and five of Lucky Cross - all just wonderful. One of the Lucky Cross had far less red marbling in all of the fruit on the plant, and flavor a tick less than the other four. I also planted three different Brandywines - all part of the lineage of the Quisenberry selection - and all superb.

6. Varieties grown for pollen - quite an unusual mix - good results/seed obtained from USDA Lutescent, Victory Honor Bright (they grew identically), the potato leaf version of these I found in Turkey Chomp - Surprise, two different Variegated, Blue P20, and one sent to me by a Florida friend, Everglades - a tiny pink currant type tomato that is delicious, but hard to pick - it adheres tightly to the stem. Also Carrot-like, Rose Quartz multiflora, Stick (didn't get fruit - disease issues, poor placement), and a high antho pink cherry selection from a friend.

Dwarfs:

1. newly released, previously released and close - I got a good check of Kangaroo Paw Yellow, Green and Brown (I like the yellow the least of the three for flavor), Dwarf Sweet Sue, Sturt Desert Pea, Kookaburra Cackle, Tanunda Red (really a fine tomato), Dwarf Mahogany, Maralinga, Dwarf Scarlet Heart, Tennessee Suited (very nice), Sweet Adelaide (ditto), Waratah, Loxton Lass, Loxton Lad, Dwarf Crimson Sockeye, Dwarf Wild Spudleaf, Dwarf Russian Swirl, Chocolate Lightning, Dwarf Pink Passion, Dwarf Lemon Ice, Dwarf Scarlet Heart, Rosella Crimson, Sweet Adelaide and Saucy Mary (a few are still works in progress). I failed to get fruit due to disease and/or deer damage from Wilpena, Dwarf Caitydid, Dwarf Firebird Sweet, Dwarf Orange Cream, Boronia, BrandyFred, Dwarf Beauty King, TastyWine, Lucky Swirl, Dwarf Blazing Beauty, and Dwarf Golden Gypsy

2. works in progress - I had a cross show up in Boronia last year - a medium small brown with stripes that I thought might be a hybrid between Boronia and Sarandipity. Well, it was - I grew two, one of which looked like the hybrid, the other like Sarandipity. I also had good luck with seven cherries from the Snowy line. I didn't get great flavor or results from Galen's Yellow, Desert Star, or Velvet Night.

3. Early works - recent crosses - I wasn't terribly impressed with my F2s from Tiggy, Scary, Burly and a few others - all described in the dwarf area. The most promising works in progress are some cherries from the Teensy line, especially a brown, and a green when ripe. I also got some promising leads from the Steamy line - small pink paste types with good flavor. There is a LOT of work to do on our cherry and paste source crosses.

Add my usual work on eggplant and peppers (dehybridization work on Blue Jay pepper and Orient Express eggplant), and it's kept me quite out of trouble!

[ScottinAtlanta]

Craig, Is there any way to get seed from the Cherokee Purple with 16 year old lineage? Would be great to be sure that we have the original version.

[nctomatoman]

Sure, Scott - here is what I grew this year:

Lot 02-3 - grown from 91-27, which was a planting of seed from JD Green (vial 287)
Lot 08-12 - grown from 93-2, which was a planting of JD's seed (287)
Lot 11-51 - grown from 94-108, which was from 90-10, which was from 287.

So this represents the three plantings of JD's original seed - it branches out from there for my various growouts over the years.

I can shoot you a few of and you can see what you get! The three grew equally well - I will probably send you a few from the 02-3 grow out (14 year old seed)

[imp]

Sounds like you've had a good and busy year! Love the information, always good to know more about varieties.

How did the cherokee's differ from what is more currently grown out, in your opinion?

I'd love some seed for next year, too, if you are going to have enough- cherokee purple was the firt heirloom that I ate and it was my "gate way" tomato, LOL!!

[nctomatoman]

Good question, imp. Cherokee Green is showing up more and more in local farmers markets and has been really good - true to type. Cherokee Chocolate is rarely seen around here, which is too bad - it is a great tomato with a distinctly different color.

Cherokee Purple, having been around longer, is a different story. One of the main growers here at a farmers market has selected it over the years for larger fruit and longer keeping because it sells better and there is less waste. I got a few from him to taste a few years ago, and the interior structure was quite different, much larger unusable core, and far inferior flavor, though it was beautiful to look at. I've had emails from a few people here and there that say the same thing - they wonder why their Cherokee Purple has such a large core - they send me pics and I note that the seed cavities are way too large.

There are of course other variables - how was it grown (many market growers here are going to tunnel growing - hoop houses, which may impact flavor). I am also confident we are seeing examples that are picked too green, and when they ripen, texture and flavor are suboptimal.

This can and likely does happen with many popular varieties - inadvertent selection due to unspotted bee crossing, unwitting or uneducated selection (lack of understanding of tomato genetics) - mislabeling (calling any purple tomato "Cherokee Purple" - I've spotted what is clearly Black Krim sold as Cherokee Purple - same with Black from Tula).

Anyway - things happen - it is important to me to remind myself every so often what various tomatoes were like when I first got them - at least make as good an effort as I can.

[imp]

BTW, I also blame the following on you entirely, LOL, and your very good video's on dendse planting and up potting small tomato babies- that got me into way too many tomato plants last year and a lot of fun, too!

Your fault, though- that's what I told my husband, it was all because I did as you did. <smile> He believed it, too.

[Yak54]

Craig

I get tired just reading about all the work you do ! Of course you are tireless, so your work is normal for you. It's just the rest of us that can't imagine all that you do. I'm interested in the "three different Brandywines from the Quisenberry selection" you grew that were all superb. I've been growing Stump of the world for the past few years and wonder what type of productivity you are getting with the three different Brandywines. I stopped growing Sudduth's due to it's poor production in my garden and replaced it with Cowlick's instead. If I can't get at least 15 tomatoes from a plant, I usually stop growing it after a couple of tries.

Dan

[BigVanVader]

Craig I would love some of those Cherokee Purple. Mine did great this year but the flavor wasnt great and I cant help but wonder if something has changed it over the years. What are the main differences in Cherokee Choc? It looks a lot like Indian Stripe in pics.

[nctomatoman]

Hey Big - sure! So Cherokee Purple and Indian Stripe are very similar - they share clear skin with the deep crimson interior with some retained green, giving them the purple hue. Cherokee Chocolate has yellow skin - so the color is more of a brick red - the color of Nyagous or Japanese Trifele Black (both of which also have yellow skin).

I can shoot you a few seeds of each to try. Just PM me your mailing address so I can confirm I have the right one.

[efisakov]

Originally Posted by nctomatoman

Hey Big - sure! So Cherokee Purple and Indian Stripe are very similar - they share clear skin with the deep crimson interior with some retained green, giving them the purple hue. Cherokee Chocolate has yellow skin - so the color is more of a brick red - the color of Nyagous or Japanese Trifele Black (both of which also have yellow skin).

I can shoot you a few seeds of each to try. Just PM me your mailing address so I can confirm I have the right one.

There is a difference in taste for me. CC is sweeter than IS. I love CC taste but it is not shaped perfect all the time. Do you have the same observations?

[mdvpc]

Craig -Thanks for your update! You have been very busy!

[MissS]

Thank you for posting all of your findings. As always, you have some good information...

[efisakov]

Sweet Sue Dwarf has excellent taste and really good production for me. Was a bit taller for dwarf, about 4 feet tall. Never the less it produced better than some regular size tomatoes. Love that one. Have been growing it for few years. I already picked almost 6 pounds from it and there are more green on the vines. Considering that weather this year is really off that is good outcome for any dwarf.
SS has consistency in size and shape.
9.7, 7.0, 7.1, 7.0, 7.3, 7.3, 6.1, 6.3, 4.3, 7.3, 7.7, 7.2, 7.0 in ounces

[nctomatoman]

Dan, as far as the Brandywines - they all have the same origin - just three different "branches". I received Brandywine from Roger Wentling (it is he who got it from Ben Quisenberry) of the SSE in 1987 (vial 29, long gone).

This year I grew out three that had #29 as its origin - 11-49, 11-60 and 11-61.

11-49 came from 01-25, which came from 98-9, which came from 94-2, which came from 88-9 - first year I grew it - which came from 29. So the 11-49 is 4 grow outs removed from the original seed.

11-60 is from 01-5, which is from 97-27, which is from 93-58, which is from 88-9, which is from 29 - so 11-60 is also 4 grow outs removed.

11-61 is from 01-11, from 02-67 - interestingly, a plant with tomato spotted wilt (it didn't carry through), from 95-100, from 91-51, from 90-16, from 88-9 - so this one is 6 grow outs removed.

In all three cases, the results were the same this year - large pink oblate smooth fruit on a potato leaf plant with superb flavor - among my best of the year.

[Yak54]

Originally Posted by nctomatoman

Dan, as far as the Brandywines - they all have the same origin - just three different "branches". I received Brandywine from Roger Wentling (it is he who got it from Ben Quisenberry) of the SSE in 1987 (vial 29, long gone).

This year I grew out three that had #29 as its origin - 11-49, 11-60 and 11-61.

11-49 came from 01-25, which came from 98-9, which came from 94-2, which came from 88-9 - first year I grew it - which came from 29. So the 11-49 is 4 grow outs removed from the original seed.

11-60 is from 01-5, which is from 97-27, which is from 93-58, which is from 88-9, which is from 29 - so 11-60 is also 4 grow outs removed.

11-61 is from 01-11, from 02-67 - interestingly, a plant with tomato spotted wilt (it didn't carry through), from 95-100, from 91-51, from 90-16, from 88-9 - so this one is 6 grow outs removed.

In all three cases, the results were the same this year - large pink oblate smooth fruit on a potato leaf plant with superb flavor - among my best of the year.

Craig--Thanks for your response. What I'm most interested in is what type of productivity are you getting with these Brandywine plants. Approx. how many fruits do you get per plant ?

Dan