Shorter more compact indeterminate plants

[schill93]

I have an area with a 5 1/2' high wall that I want to plant against. Because of HOA, I can't be putting up stakes or cages that would exceed this height, and preferably plants that won't either. I know determinates stay smaller, but I'm looking for really good taste which usually favor the heirloom or open pollinated varieties. I already have purchased a number of dwarfs that I will be planting in another similar area, so I have that covered.

I have always read posts concerning topping off tomato plants and it's effect on the plant but seem to always get very mixed messages on the advisability of this.

So if you know of any particular plants (non dwarfs) that are more compact and have what most consider good taste, please recommend. For what it's worth, I live in extreme heat conditions in Las Vegas. (but don't let that sway you)

If you have any advice on either more compact varieties or topping tomato plants, please share your experience with me.

[ContainerTed]

Schill, I was stationed at Nellis for a couple years. I know your pain. I can recommend a couple of smaller, great tasting ones that might fit your needs. One is Bison, which has superb old fashioned heirloom taste and will survive well there. The other is one I will introduce in about a week and it is named "The Miracle". It is a Red and the taste goes off the scale. It is a compact indeterminate that will continue to produce until killed off by frost.

On a side note, I have been totally bummed out by the current condition of Lake Mead. It was such a great bass lake when I was there. We used to camp up above Echo Bay and now, I understand that the dock and launch there is closed.

Take care

[schill93]

Originally Posted by ContainerTed

Schill, I was stationed at Nellis for a couple years. I know your pain. I can recommend a couple of smaller, great tasting ones that might fit your needs. One is Bison, which has superb old fashioned heirloom taste and will survive well there. The other is one I will introduce in about a week and it is named "The Miracle". It is a pink and the taste goes off the scale. It is a compact indeterminate that will continue to produce until killed off by frost.

On a side note, I have been totally bummed out by the current condition of Lake Mead. It was such a great bass lake when I was there. We used to camp up above Echo Bay and now, I understand that the dock and launch there is closed.

Take care

Thanks a bunch ContainerTed. I will check out the Bison, and I am of course very interested in "The Miracle" you mentioned. Love the name too. Yup any varieties that have decent taste that might survive this heat are always appreciated. How might we go about obtaining "The Miracle"?

I haven't signed up for the yearly swap as all of my seeds are purchased for my first year with growing from seed.

Yes, what's happening to Lake Mead is awful, and scary. With the way you are into tomatoes, I bet you just loved growing here. Not for the faint of heart for sure.

Funny, you all said to just cut the tops off. I have been Googling the subject for the last two hours. One tomato blog expert says, "Sure you can do it." The next article says. "Don't do it if you want future tomatoes." The more I read, the more I get confused.

[Scooty]

DTP heights for me.

I don't see any issue with planting any indeterminate and pruning once it hits 5'. You may get less fruit, but plenty of people have been doing it this way for years just to keep indeterminates manageable in cages.

[slugworth]

cut the tops off indeterminate plants as needed.

[Labradors2]

Ted,

I have "The Miracle BPF". I assume its the same???

Linda

[Ricky Shaw]

You are not limited to just up, you can go sideways and use a thinner vining plant. The problem I see with some of the compact indeterminates is a stocky frame and foliage set that is thirsty and not so heat tolerant. Two example in my garden were Paul Robeson and Chapman, they stayed shorter, but looked ragged early and had poorer fruit sets.

Pic is Triple Crop grown horizontally.

[Barb_FL]

Large Barred Boar doesn't get too big and does well in the heat. Fruit look and taste is very similar to PBTD and GGWT.

Actually, PBTD never exceeded 5' by much either.

Black and Brown Boar (another similar tasting tomato but smaller tomato) stays within the 54" tomato cage size.

JDs Special C-Tex plant didn't get large but fruit cracked so bad I won't bother again.

Stump of the World by name alone doesn't sound like it gets large.

[schill93]

Originally Posted by Barb_FL

Large Barred Boar doesn't get too big and does well in the heat. Fruit look and taste is very similar to PBTD and GGWT.

Actually, PBTD never exceeded 5' by much either.



Black and Brown Boar (another similar tasting tomato but smaller tomato) stays within the 54" tomato cage size.

JDs Special C-Tex plant didn't get large but fruit cracked so bad I won't bother again.

Stump of the World by name alone doesn't sound like it gets large.

I've ordered seeds from all of the above except Large Barred Boar. It was a mind twister for me to figure out PBTD, but I finally got it. (Pink Bradley Tie Dye) (Oh, I'm so tomato literate now!)

That used to drive me crazy when you guys referred to tomatoes by their initials, and I didn't know a determinate from and indeterminate.

Oh, I want to order this great ABCD tomato that everyone is talking about. How do I do it?

[Ricky Shaw]

Barb, good to know on JDs Special C-Tex. Nearly everything splits here, surely the low humidity doesn't help, Rebel Yell's about my worst.

[Scooty]

I don't think you're restricted to anything as far as height goes. It's just going to be a matter of how much pruning and or trellising (possibly horizontally) you want to do with the indeterminates.

[Gerardo]

Daniel Burson, Chapman, Cosm Volkov (sometimes), Mikhalych, Pierce's Pride, and Carbon have been compact for me.

PBTD is compact and pretty, and a smooth texture that needs just a little more flavor to put it over the hump.

SOTW can be a beast, albeit a very productive beast.

I concur on the JD's SCT.

Chopping can be a good thing.

[Gardeneer]

You can make an indet grow like a det, by keeping all laterals and topping the main and event some of the aggressive laterals. The principle is that a given plant has limited resources and it cannot grow all the branches very tall.
But if you take this approach you will have to have ample spacing between the plants, probably 4 ft.

[schill93]

Originally Posted by Gerardo

Daniel Burson, Chapman, Cosm Volkov (sometimes), Mikhalych, Pierce's Pride, and Carbon have been compact for me.

PBTD is compact and pretty, and a smooth texture that needs just a little more flavor to put it over the hump.

SOTW can be a beast, albeit a very productive beast.

I concur on the JD's SCT.

Chopping can be a good thing.

There you go again. SOTW. That couldn't be Stump the World, could it?
And here I was thinking I finally learned the language.

Originally Posted by Gardeneer

You can make an indet grow like a det, by keeping all laterals and topping the main and event some of the aggressive laterals. The principle is that a given plant has limited resources and it cannot grow all the branches very tall.
But if you take this approach you will have to have ample spacing between the plants, probably 4 ft.

That's a good point Gardeneer. I wondered about that, and you just confirmed it.
That's kind of a bummer if you have limited space. It's times like this, I wish I lived on a farm (or back on my 2 1/2 acres in Florida)

I have quite a few of the one's you mentioned. Just didn't know their growing habits yet and what to put where. So this was very helpful.

[tash11]

Originally Posted by Gardeneer

You can make an indet grow like a det, by keeping all laterals and topping the main and event some of the aggressive laterals. The principle is that a given plant has limited resources and it cannot grow all the branches very tall.
But if you take this approach you will have to have ample spacing between the plants, probably 4 ft.

I am about 5 1/2 feet tall, and I have only once had a plant taller then me. I don't prune really. The one that was taller was a black prince which I had tied up to the deck above. I find that black prince grows just one vine. Last year my stakes were all under 4'. I don't think you will have a problem with anything you want to grow as long as you don't support them over 5'.