Growing Heirlooms

[schill93]

This will be my first year growing heirloom tomatoes and I need to figure out my space allocations. However, since I have never grown these before, I really have no idea how tall they may grow. This info does not appear on seed vendors web sites.

More than 1/2 of these will be grown in containers, so I know that may effect height as well as soil conditions. But I would like "an average" height from those who have grown any of these varieties. Just a good estimation of height based on your own experience. Also would love to know if it is particularly sprawly (wide) or if it is more of a compact plant.

I would consider the following:
Compact -(C) 4' or under
Mid Size (MS) 5-6'
Large (L) 6 - 8'
Very Large(VL) Over 8'

This is my tentative list:

Amazon Chocolate
Big Beef
Black & Brown Boar
Black from Tulsa
Brandywine Cowlick
Burgundy Traveler
Dora
Earls Faux
Eva Purple Ball
FD;s Special C Tex
Fish Lake Oxheart
Fred Limbaugh Legacy PT
Girl Girls Wild Thing
Indian Stripe PL
Indian Stripe RL
Jet Star
Marianna Peace
Pink Berkley Tie Dye
Pruden's Purple
Rebel Yell

Very much appreciate any input.

[Cole_Robbie]

Jet Star is more compact than Big Beef, I know that much.

Plant sizes are going to be different in varying soil conditions. Most of those varieties look like typical indeterminates to me, meaning they will get as big as conditions allow.

[ContainerTed]

Hey, it's a great list. I would suggest only a couple of minor variety name spelling corrections. It's always good to have the name correct so folks will know exactly what you're growing and may want to trade with you. Here's what I would suggest.

Black from Tulsa ==> Should be "Black From Tula"
Brandywine Cowlick ==> It was named "Cowlick's Brandywine" by Camochef.
FD;s Special C Tex ==> Should be "JD's Special C-Tex"
Earls Faux =======> Should be "Earl's Faux"
Fred Limbaugh Legacy PT == Should be "Limbaugh’s Legacy Potato Top"
Girl Girls Wild Thing ===> Should be "Girl Girl's Weird Thing"
Marianna Peace ===> Should Be "Marianna's Peace"

You should have a wonderful crop, and I can see some great tomato juice in that collection.

Anyhow, here's the ones I've grown recently

Amazon Chocolate =====> Large
Big Beef ===========> Large
Black from Tulsa ======> Medium Large
Brandywine Cowlick ====> Large
Dora ==============> Medium Large
FD;s Special C Tex =====> Large
Fish Lake Oxheart =====> Medium Large
Girl Girls Wild Thing ====> Large
Indian Stripe PL =======> Large
Indian Stripe RL =======> Large
Pink Berkley Tie Dye ====> Large
Rebel Yell ===========> Large

[Ed of Somis]

somebody has been doing their homework.... You did not come up with that list by accident. One word of caution...growing indeterminate varieties in a container becomes a challenge to provide support for the vines. Give that some thought...along with your size comparisons. goodluck

[PaulF]

I agree with Ted on sizes...for in-ground growing. My experience with container grown tomatoes is dated but expect to reduce the sizes by perhaps 1/3. Still very large and will need support. The containers need to be at least 5 gallons per plant and larger pots are even better.

[ContainerTed]

And, pay attention to the amount of foliage a plant is putting on. More foliage means more water on a daily basis. My estimations in post #3 are based on my use of mostly 15 to 18 gallon containers that allow me to let the plant remain "Prune-Free" and grow totally naturally. Lots of foliage is good for the plant and the taste of the fruit, so I only cut away leaves that can touch the potting mix.

Smaller containers will always require more frequent hand watering or a drip system. PaulF's experience with plant size is good to know about, but I've had a lot of plants that were larger in the containers than in the ground (Cherokee Chocolate comes immediately to mind). But, availability of nutrients, water, direct sunlight, and space to expand out will all affect plant size of a given variety. I've even seen this (albeit to a lesser extent) in the dwarf plants. One thing I haven't been able to figure out is why the tomatoes are always somewhat smaller in containers.

[carolyn137]

One thing I haven't been able to figure out is why the tomatoes are always somewhat smaller in containers.

*****

Tomatoes have a conscious and in containers they feel claustrophobic, simple as that,so less room to grow,less roots,not so much foliage,etc.

But more truthfully,all my plants are now grown in containers by Freda, and some are repeats of faves, and comparing containers/gro bags, as opposed to inground, I do agree with you.

Carolyn

[schill93]

Container Ted. Thank you so much for the input. I was just hoping some varieties might be more compact. This is not my first attempt at growing tomatoes. I have done it twice now. But for the last two years, I purchased transplants from our nursery, and they carry almost exclusively hybrids,

Since I tasted one good tomato (Cherokee Carbon), I knew I had to learn how to grow my own seeds. Most of the tomato plants that I have planted were indeterminate s and I sure know about growth. They ranged from 6 -12' and some are still flopping over.

I am set for staking in one area where the plants are now. But I'm going to build two raised beds now and I was hoping I would not have to build a new fortress to support them. I do use cages, but they are not adequate.

I understand that Black Krim & Paul Robeson are more compact plants. Is this true?

Carolyn, I agree that containers can restrict fruit size. Though I use anywhere from 15 to 25 gallon containers as well as Earthboxes. However, this will be my first experience with a raised bed.

Yes, Ed of Somus, I have been doing my homework. I can't believe all the reading I have done both here on this forum and anywhere else I can garner information. There is soooooo much to learn. I feel like I'm back in school.

I have made some really stupid funny mistakes along the way. Like placing a pepper plant in between two humongous indeterminate tomato plants. It really didn't need any sun.

[b54red]

Originally Posted by schill93

Container Ted. Thank you so much for the input. I was just hoping some varieties might be more compact. This is not my first attempt at growing tomatoes. I have done it twice now. But for the last two years, I purchased transplants from our nursery, and they carry almost exclusively hybrids,

Since I tasted one good tomato (Cherokee Carbon), I knew I had to learn how to grow my own seeds. Most of the tomato plants that I have planted were indeterminate s and I sure know about growth. They ranged from 6 -12' and some are still flopping over.

I am set for staking in one area where the plants are now. But I'm going to build two raised beds now and I was hoping I would not have to build a new fortress to support them. I do use cages, but they are not adequate.

I understand that Black Krim & Paul Robeson are more compact plants. Is this true?

Carolyn, I agree that containers can restrict fruit size. Though I use anywhere from 15 to 25 gallon containers as well as Earthboxes. However, this will be my first experience with a raised bed.

Yes, Ed of Somus, I have been doing my homework. I can't believe all the reading I have done both here on this forum and anywhere else I can garner information. There is soooooo much to learn. I feel like I'm back in school.

I have made some really stupid funny mistakes along the way. Like placing a pepper plant in between two humongous indeterminate tomato plants. It really didn't need any sun.

Black Krim is smaller than some indeterminate hybrids but my experience with Paul Robeson makes me think it is on the larger side. I think you might like Indian Stripe regular leaf as it is more compact and does well in the heat. Another you might want to try in your raised beds is Pruden's Purple as its vine is on the smaller side for a pink beefsteak and it also sets well in the heat. My favorite variety in dry hot weather is Indian Stripe PL as it sets the best of any I have tried in those conditions but it tends to get taller than its regular leaf brother. Other varieties that I have used that are more compact are Druzba and Grub's Mystery Green. Most of the heirlooms that I grow get huge so when I plant the above varieties I try to put them on the ends of rows so they don't get shaded too much by the larger varieties.

With raised beds you will need to use a good heavy mulch to cut down on watering and disease. Since you live in a dry climate you might want to build some Texas Tomato Cages to support your plants. They will support some really large plants and if they are pruned a bit they can be managed easily. Texas Tomato Food is also a great all in one fertilizer than is easily used for both containers and raised beds with the use of a hose end applicator like the Chameleon by Hudson. It has the added benefit of increasing fruit set even in the hottest weather when used regularly.

Bill

Bill

[Gardeneer]

Big Beef and I think also Jet star are Hybrid.
Big Beef is vigorous , fruit size in 8 to 12 oz.
Black from Tula is more compact indet, fruit size very large.
IS PL has similar growth habit to BFT but with smaller fruits. I recommend both.
BUT, I have not grown them in containers.

[rhoder551]

Pink Berkeley Tie Die is the only one on your list I have grown and it is a huge plant in my garden and tends to sprawl. I do like it because it is very productive and the tomatoes are sweet and juicy. One I would recommend not on your list is Ananas Noir; in my garden climate it does not grow very big--aprox 5 feet--and the tomatoes are delicious.

[schill93]

That is really helpful guys. I have three different areas for planting. One will be for dwarfs, peppers and eggplants. Of the remaining two areas, one can handle larger plants and the second area would be better for somewhat smaller plants. Since I have not planted any of these, it's hard to know what to plant where.

b54red I always follow your posts closely, as you are in a very hot area also, though with humidity which I don't have.(just higher temps usually) I don't think there is anyone from southern Nevada that posts on here. There are a couple from Phoenix, but they don't post very much.

b54red. Do you folier feed your plants with Texas Tomato Food, and how often do you feed them? What concentration do you set the dial for? I was planning on ordering the Tex. Tomato Food for next season based on your recommendation. Though it is really expensive with shipping to NV. But I still want to try it.

rhoder551. That is very good to know about Ananas Noir. I did buy seeds for that as well.

[Gardeneer]

Originally Posted by schill93

That is really helpful guys. I have three different areas for planting. One will be for dwarfs, peppers and eggplants. Of the remaining two areas, one can handle larger plants and the second area would be better for somewhat smaller plants. Since I have not planted any of these, it's hard to know what to plant where.

b54red I always follow your posts closely, as you are in a very hot area also, though with humidity which I don't have.(just higher temps usually) I don't think there is anyone from southern Nevada that posts on here. There are a couple from Phoenix, but they don't post very much.

b54red. Do you folier feed your plants with Texas Tomato Food, and how often do you feed them? What concentration do you set the dial for? I was planning on ordering the Tex. Tomato Food for next season based on your recommendation. Though it is really expensive with shipping to NV. But I still want to try it.

rhoder551. That is very good to know about Ananas Noir. I did buy seeds for that as well.

Ananas Noire is one of favorites. I have grown it last 3 season. It has great taste.
But it is a nice multi -color not red.