Best way to grow tomatoes outside without plastic mulch

videorov · January 25, 2017

Im located in Bradenton, Fla and want to grow large amount of tomatoes in rows
around 165ft long but don't really want to get into using plastic mulch and use
a hiller mulch laying attachment behind the tractor.
Is there another way, I see some use straw around plants if I can get straw here
in this area?

Maybe just a circle around each plant and not have the plant real close together.

Just looking for some new ideas how I can do it.

Hay might work but I know it has grass seed in it but it still might block out weeds
while it lays there around the plant.

Gardeneer · January 25, 2017

If plastic is black, it can make your soil get even warmer. That is if it is expose. But if you mulch over it with hay, straw than why not just use thicker mulch.
Where I live I can get as much pine straw that I want. I have already raked and collected a big pile of it That is what I will use as mulch. Good thing about it is that it breaks down and will become a good soil amendment.
On the weeds front, most of the shallow rooted weeds should not pose a problem and instead the can become a shield protecting the soil.

PureHarvest · January 25, 2017

Biodegradable heavy paper mulch on a roll. Supposed to last a season. Rolls out like plastic film mulch. You can even get it impregnated with organic fertilizer:
http://www.weedguardplus.com/index.php
Another version from another company:
http://www.agriculturesolutions.com/...FQ-BswodUJYGZw

videorov · January 25, 2017

The problem with paper mulch would be wind to blow it away and its to much work to put dirt on it and the rain just washes it way. Using the hiller mulch attachment it does all the work but I don't like having to pull it back up and get rid of it is a pain too.

Hay I can get cheap around here from the farm guys. I might just give that a try.
I know people will say watch out for the seeds but I can get straw around here and the cost would be lots more then hay. I just till stuff back into the ground with my 4ft tiller
on the tractor..
I also thought about a cover crop to grow maybe before planting but that might eat
up the nutrients from the tomatoes. But it would be good for erosion and put back into the soil when I tiller it all back in. Hmmmmmm

creeker · January 25, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by PureHarvest

Biodegradable heavy paper mulch on a roll. Supposed to last a season. Rolls out like plastic film mulch. You can even get it impregnated with organic fertilizer:
http://www.weedguardplus.com/index.php
Another version from another company:
http://www.agriculturesolutions.com/...FQ-BswodUJYGZw

PureHarvest · January 25, 2017

If you have a layer, you can use it to install the weedgaurd plus brand.
Does anyone in your area grow/sell large round bales of hay? Here they are around $40-$50. Much less if you find someone trying to move "junk" or spoiled hay.
You could roll it out like a carpet and plant through it. It'd give you about a 4' bed and it would be thick enough to prevent weeds.

rockman · January 25, 2017

Gardeneer, is the pine straw you use and needles from say a white pine tree the same?

videorov · January 25, 2017

Yes Pureharvest there are plenty of the big rolls around here. Next door to
me they have some for some horses right now. Its easy to buy around here and cheap.
I don't think I would roll out the roll that think. I would just layer it around the plants
and it should help when it rains and our hot summers too.

I might give that a try in the months coming up.

I have tomatoes growing right now in raised beds on south side of the housee and should have some ready to pick in about 2 weeks looks like.
But for the field I plan to put in hundreds and sell some tomatoes this year.

Cole_Robbie · January 26, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by videorov

But for the field I plan to put in hundreds and sell some tomatoes this year.

Florida is infested with root knot nematodes. They live in the soil. It is likely only a matter of time before they make their way into your raised beds, too. For field production, you'll need to grow the commercial varieties that have been bred to resist the nematodes, but as far as I know they are all going to taste like grocery store tomatoes. Grafting to nematode-resistant root stock is probably your best bet if you want tomatoes with good flavor.

Gardeneer · January 26, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockman

Gardeneer, is the pine straw you use and needles from say a white pine tree the same?

Pine straw is dry and mature pine needle leaves . The kind of pine does not make a difference ( white, yellow ...)when it is used as mulch. They might be shorter, longer,or whatever. They are made of dead fiber cells

PureHarvest · January 25, 2017

You think it would be too thick of a layer? I think it would be perfect. You could just take your hands and separate/spread open a hole and plant. It is plenty breathable to have a 4" thick layer, but everyone's bale is different I guess.
Would be a lot less work and better uniformity than by hand.
There is a book by Charles Wilbur called World Record Tomatoes. He once held like two or 3 guiness records. He shares his production methods in his book. He mulches with straw but makes a large square grid using sections of straw he pulls off of square bales. I'll see if I can take a picture of the page and post it. Easier than describing it. i did it one year on a dozen plants and it worked awesome. But for 100 or more, yikes. My point though is the thickness was not an issue.

creeker · January 25, 2017

Weedguard plus paper works early on but rots out by midseason if wet and is easily wrecked by wind if not held down by dirt or whatever. I will be using black on white plastic film (black on one side and white on other) this year from (growers solution.com). The white side reflects more light to plants and is cooler. Is textured and not supposed to blow much. Hope it works as I have a terrible grass problem in the garden. By August it looks like a pasture.

AlittleSalt · January 26, 2017

I use mulched oak leaves here in Texas. Mostly because we have 10 acres of oak trees. They're good for the soil, keeps the ground temperature a little lower, doesn't reflect sunlight back onto the plants, keeps weeds down, and can be tilled/plowed into the soil to enrich it organically between seasons.

AlittleSalt · January 26, 2017

Cole, I was thinking the same thing. But I thought, the whole state wouldn't be RKN infested?

b54red · January 26, 2017

Most of the farmers around here who use plastic mulch have irrigation under the plastic and feed the plants through irrigation also. They also don't try to grow tomatoes through the summer but rather pull them not long after the first few pickings. They will sometimes try to get a fall crop but that is more risky with their system.

If you use Bahia grass hay you will get millions of seed and then fight Bahia non stop after that. I tried it one year and ended up having to spray my beds that I used it in with Roundup to get the Bermuda out.

I'm sorry I don't know of a feasible mulch other than plastic that would be cheap and available down there that would work on rows that long. I also don't see how you will grow tomatoes in that sandy soil without some form of irrigation unless you are very lucky with the rainfall.

Bill

January 25, 2017	#1
videorov Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Bradenton, Fla Posts: 21	Best way to grow tomatoes outside without plastic mulch Im located in Bradenton, Fla and want to grow large amount of tomatoes in rows around 165ft long but don't really want to get into using plastic mulch and use a hiller mulch laying attachment behind the tractor. Is there another way, I see some use straw around plants if I can get straw here in this area? Maybe just a circle around each plant and not have the plant real close together. Just looking for some new ideas how I can do it. Hay might work but I know it has grass seed in it but it still might block out weeds while it lays there around the plant.

January 25, 2017	#2
Gardeneer Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: NC - zone 8a - heat zone 7 Posts: 4,919	If plastic is black, it can make your soil get even warmer. That is if it is expose. But if you mulch over it with hay, straw than why not just use thicker mulch. Where I live I can get as much pine straw that I want. I have already raked and collected a big pile of it That is what I will use as mulch. Good thing about it is that it breaks down and will become a good soil amendment. On the weeds front, most of the shallow rooted weeds should not pose a problem and instead the can become a shield protecting the soil. __________________ Gardeneer Happy Gardening !

January 25, 2017	#4
videorov Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Bradenton, Fla Posts: 21	Mulch The problem with paper mulch would be wind to blow it away and its to much work to put dirt on it and the rain just washes it way. Using the hiller mulch attachment it does all the work but I don't like having to pull it back up and get rid of it is a pain too. Hay I can get cheap around here from the farm guys. I might just give that a try. I know people will say watch out for the seeds but I can get straw around here and the cost would be lots more then hay. I just till stuff back into the ground with my 4ft tiller on the tractor.. I also thought about a cover crop to grow maybe before planting but that might eat up the nutrients from the tomatoes. But it would be good for erosion and put back into the soil when I tiller it all back in. Hmmmmmm

January 25, 2017	#8
videorov Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Bradenton, Fla Posts: 21	Mulch Yes Pureharvest there are plenty of the big rolls around here. Next door to me they have some for some horses right now. Its easy to buy around here and cheap. I don't think I would roll out the roll that think. I would just layer it around the plants and it should help when it rains and our hot summers too. I might give that a try in the months coming up. I have tomatoes growing right now in raised beds on south side of the housee and should have some ready to pick in about 2 weeks looks like. But for the field I plan to put in hundreds and sell some tomatoes this year.

January 25, 2017	#11
PureHarvest Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Mid-Atlantic right on the line of Zone 7a and 7b Posts: 1,369	You think it would be too thick of a layer? I think it would be perfect. You could just take your hands and separate/spread open a hole and plant. It is plenty breathable to have a 4" thick layer, but everyone's bale is different I guess. Would be a lot less work and better uniformity than by hand. There is a book by Charles Wilbur called World Record Tomatoes. He once held like two or 3 guiness records. He shares his production methods in his book. He mulches with straw but makes a large square grid using sections of straw he pulls off of square bales. I'll see if I can take a picture of the page and post it. Easier than describing it. i did it one year on a dozen plants and it worked awesome. But for 100 or more, yikes. My point though is the thickness was not an issue. Last edited by PureHarvest; January 25, 2017 at 10:20 PM.

January 25, 2017	#7
rockman Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: fortville,IN 46040 Posts: 140	Gardeneer, is the pine straw you use and needles from say a white pine tree the same?

January 25, 2017	#12
creeker Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Southern New Mexico Posts: 106	Weedguard plus paper works early on but rots out by midseason if wet and is easily wrecked by wind if not held down by dirt or whatever. I will be using black on white plastic film (black on one side and white on other) this year from (growers solution.com). The white side reflects more light to plants and is cooler. Is textured and not supposed to blow much. Hope it works as I have a terrible grass problem in the garden. By August it looks like a pasture.

January 26, 2017	#13
AlittleSalt BANNED FOR LIFE Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 13,333	I use mulched oak leaves here in Texas. Mostly because we have 10 acres of oak trees. They're good for the soil, keeps the ground temperature a little lower, doesn't reflect sunlight back onto the plants, keeps weeds down, and can be tilled/plowed into the soil to enrich it organically between seasons.

January 26, 2017	#15
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	Most of the farmers around here who use plastic mulch have irrigation under the plastic and feed the plants through irrigation also. They also don't try to grow tomatoes through the summer but rather pull them not long after the first few pickings. They will sometimes try to get a fall crop but that is more risky with their system. If you use Bahia grass hay you will get millions of seed and then fight Bahia non stop after that. I tried it one year and ended up having to spray my beds that I used it in with Roundup to get the Bermuda out. I'm sorry I don't know of a feasible mulch other than plastic that would be cheap and available down there that would work on rows that long. I also don't see how you will grow tomatoes in that sandy soil without some form of irrigation unless you are very lucky with the rainfall. Bill