Planting out seedlings before there time

schill93 · March 5, 2017

I have a dilemma that hopefully you more experienced gardeners can help me with
I made a big mistake and listened to someone who is supposed to be an expert when I purchased my mix for my new raised bed. He told me that the same mix would would work "Great" for small plants in containers as well.

Well, I decided to take him at his word, and after delivery when I was going to transplant many of my seedlings into 4" pots from the seedling trays, I used this soil, but added some perlite and vermiculite to it.

What has happened: My plants that I up potted to my Fox Farm soil mix grew appropriately. Those I planted with the raised bed soil, did not. So now I have over half of my tomato plants stunted and only about 5 to 7" tall.

Earlier when I first realized I had a problem, I decided to try and transplant some of them to the better mix, but the soil was so hard around them, I decided to just remove what soil I could and try and preserve the roots best I could. This worked in only about 1 in 8 attempts, so I decided to stop killing my tomatoes.

Unfortunately, no miracles occurred, and they are still very small, and I am now faced with the decision of planting them out anyway, or transplanting them to a larger container with good mix, but not taking off the old and waiting another two weeks. (very late for me) What would be my better choice?

It is already late for getting plants in the ground here due to a cold spell this week.
Or are they just toast, no matter what I do?

Father'sDaughter · March 5, 2017

If it were me, I'd make the decision based on what the stunted plants have in the way of a root structure. If the soil is so compacted that they haven't developed a decent rootball, I personally would not plant them out just yet.

Try filling a small tub with water, removing one of the stunted plants from its pot, and gently dunk and swish the root end in the water to wash away the compacted soil.

If you find good root structure, then do the same with the others and transplant them into pots with your regular potting mix and see what they do. When transplanting, put a little potting mix in a clean 4" pot, put the plant in and while holding the top upright with one hand, fill in around the roots and stem with more mix.

**carolyn137** · March 5, 2017

(So now I have over half of my tomato plants stunted and only about 5 to 7" tall.)

I realize that you think they are stunted, for the reasons given, but when I was raising seedlings I wanted to get them transplanted out at between 7 and 9 inches, since my experience showed that at that height they adapted better to growing conditions.

There were also those years when I was in the middle of transplanting out when it got too rainy to do so and thus very muddy. I usually had several hundreds of plants at different heights, so sometimes I had to plant out smaller ones after several weeks and the shorter ones caught up very quickly.

And yes, there were those years when the weather was really awful, too muddy, too cold, and my seedlings got too tall in which case I had to plant them horizontally,which took much more time on my knees which hurt.

Carolyn

schill93 · March 5, 2017

Father's Daughter: I did the very thing you suggested thinking I needed to get them out of that compacted soil. The roots were not very developed, so I washed away most of the soil and put them in new mix. Those are the ones that didn't make it, except for one or two. That's why I thought this time i should try with leaving more of the soil on them and adding some good mix to it. This is what I just did. So now it's wait and see.

Carolyn: With the ones that might have a chance, I think I will take your advice and plant them out. I do remember buying a couple of small pepper plants at the end of last summer here because they were selling them for .99 cents and I was there just staring at them. So, I threw caution to the wind, and spent $1.98

, thinking that they would never have enough time to grow and produce anything. Boy did they surprise me, they shot up like mad and I got peppers before the real cold set in. But on the other hand, they were healthy peppers, some of my stunted tomatoes - not so much.

Cole_Robbie · March 5, 2017

Are the stunted plants yellow? They might be fine if they are still green

AlittleSalt · March 6, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by carolyn137

(So now I have over half of my tomato plants stunted and only about 5 to 7" tall.)

I realize that you think they are stunted, for the reasons given, but when I was raising seedlings I wanted to get them transplanted out at between 7 and 9 inches, since my experience showed that at that height they adapted better to growing conditions.

There were also those years when I was in the middle of transplanting out when it got too rainy to do so and thus very muddy. I usually had several hundreds of plants at different heights, so sometimes I had to plant out smaller ones after several weeks and the shorter ones caught up very quickly.

And yes, there were those years when the weather was really awful, too muddy, too cold, and my seedlings got too tall in which case I had to plant them horizontally,which took much more time on my knees which hurt.

Carolyn

Carolyn, I agree completely. "I wanted to get them transplanted out at between 7 and 9 inches, since my experience showed that at that height they adapted better to growing conditions."

I could not have written that better.

AKmark · March 5, 2017

Sorry to hear that.
Container mixes must be fluffy/ peat, or coir with some perlite, and some mycorraizae, that's about it. Then you feed them exactly what they need, and that is well documented.

Now to answer your question. Repotting them should work in time. If they struggle you can clip them and root the cuttings as another option. It will take less than two weeks to root, then all of the foul mix is gone.
Good luck

schill93 · March 5, 2017

No, they haven't turned yellow. They are still green, just not growing. They are half the size they should be by now.

Akmark, I know, I know, I know.

The mix seemed pretty light UNTIL YOU WATERED IT. Then it became a brick. This guy gave me his card and it said he was from the Nevada Department of Agriculture, so I thought he knew something I didn't. After all, I'm the novice here.

I planted new seedlings, but there only a week old, which doesn't leave enough time before the sweltering heat arrives in June. Those poor babies are going out very late. I added some Early ones and a few Costoluto Genevese (Ugh), but I hear they make decent sauce and do really well in the heat.

AKmark · March 6, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by schill93

No, they haven't turned yellow. They are still green, just not growing. They are half the size they should be by now.

Akmark, I know, I know, I know.

The mix seemed pretty light UNTIL YOU WATERED IT. Then it became a brick. This guy gave me his card and it said he was from the Nevada Department of Agriculture, so I thought he knew something I didn't. After all, I'm the novice here.

I planted new seedlings, but there only a week old, which doesn't leave enough time before the sweltering heat arrives in June. Those poor babies are going out very late. I added some Early ones and a few Costoluto Genevese (Ugh), but I hear they make decent sauce and do really well in the heat.

I have done the same things before, the 80 pound containers of concrete, I usually learn the hard way though. I grew Costoluto Genevese and thought it was awesome tasting.
Good luck, I hope it turns around

Father'sDaughter · March 5, 2017

I hope you do find a way to save some of them.

Worth1 · March 5, 2017

And you are going to use this same mix in your raised beds too?
Worth

schill93 · March 6, 2017

[QUOTE=Worth1;623515]And you are going to use this same mix in your raised beds too?
Worth[/QUOT

Yes, you bring up an excellent point, which actually has me much more concerned than the stunted growth plants. This is a very popular mix here in So. Nevada and is the most expensive mix they sell. That said, I'm still worried.

I have some really over grown tomato plants that I planted "for practice" that are now three months old and in gallon to three gallon containers. I am going to put the over grown plants in first and hold back on my smaller ones. I have one out there laying down on the soil (with a plastic bag protecting the leaves from touching the soil), as I plan on planting that one on it's side, and hope the sun will bend the stem upwards in the next couple of days.

So my plants are either too small or too big. What a hoot.
On a more positive note, My new seedlings are doing great and some are over 3" from soil line already.

Of all of the seeds I have planted, I am very impressed with the sturdiness of Black From Tulsa. It seems to be a very strong plant.

Starlight · March 6, 2017

I've had that problem before. "Oh buy this soil you'll love it and so will your plants!" Grrrrrrrrr bought 4 bags and 3 are still sitting out in yard 3 years later. They turned to like cement and way to heavy for me to lift.

I kinda did what Farmer's Daughter suggested to save my plants only a bit different. I took a shallow rectangle type container, put some sand in the bottom and just a small amount of water, not enough to cover more than like 1/2" - 3/4" of the bottom of rootball at a time.

I let the hard dirt clumps sit for an hour or two and then would gently swish the plant around. Having the sand in the container helped to loosen the soil off the roots without damaging or drowning them. Took time and effort as I did it in slow steps, but once I had the soil off and replanted and a little over a week of transplant shock they grew fine.

If you putting that hard soil into a bed, you might consider adding some sand along the way too besides perlite and vermiculite.

Hope you get it worked out and can save your plants.

March 5, 2017	#1
schill93 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2015 Location: Nevada Posts: 275	Planting out seedlings before there time I have a dilemma that hopefully you more experienced gardeners can help me with I made a big mistake and listened to someone who is supposed to be an expert when I purchased my mix for my new raised bed. He told me that the same mix would would work "Great" for small plants in containers as well. Well, I decided to take him at his word, and after delivery when I was going to transplant many of my seedlings into 4" pots from the seedling trays, I used this soil, but added some perlite and vermiculite to it. What has happened: My plants that I up potted to my Fox Farm soil mix grew appropriately. Those I planted with the raised bed soil, did not. So now I have over half of my tomato plants stunted and only about 5 to 7" tall. Earlier when I first realized I had a problem, I decided to try and transplant some of them to the better mix, but the soil was so hard around them, I decided to just remove what soil I could and try and preserve the roots best I could. This worked in only about 1 in 8 attempts, so I decided to stop killing my tomatoes. Unfortunately, no miracles occurred, and they are still very small, and I am now faced with the decision of planting them out anyway, or transplanting them to a larger container with good mix, but not taking off the old and waiting another two weeks. (very late for me) What would be my better choice? It is already late for getting plants in the ground here due to a cold spell this week. Or are they just toast, no matter what I do?

March 5, 2017	#3
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	(So now I have over half of my tomato plants stunted and only about 5 to 7" tall.) I realize that you think they are stunted, for the reasons given, but when I was raising seedlings I wanted to get them transplanted out at between 7 and 9 inches, since my experience showed that at that height they adapted better to growing conditions. There were also those years when I was in the middle of transplanting out when it got too rainy to do so and thus very muddy. I usually had several hundreds of plants at different heights, so sometimes I had to plant out smaller ones after several weeks and the shorter ones caught up very quickly. And yes, there were those years when the weather was really awful, too muddy, too cold, and my seedlings got too tall in which case I had to plant them horizontally,which took much more time on my knees which hurt. Carolyn __________________ Carolyn

March 5, 2017	#2
Father'sDaughter Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: MA/NH Border Posts: 4,919	If it were me, I'd make the decision based on what the stunted plants have in the way of a root structure. If the soil is so compacted that they haven't developed a decent rootball, I personally would not plant them out just yet. Try filling a small tub with water, removing one of the stunted plants from its pot, and gently dunk and swish the root end in the water to wash away the compacted soil. If you find good root structure, then do the same with the others and transplant them into pots with your regular potting mix and see what they do. When transplanting, put a little potting mix in a clean 4" pot, put the plant in and while holding the top upright with one hand, fill in around the roots and stem with more mix.

March 5, 2017	#5
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	Are the stunted plants yellow? They might be fine if they are still green

March 5, 2017	#7
AKmark Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Wasilla Alaska Posts: 2,010	Sorry to hear that. Container mixes must be fluffy/ peat, or coir with some perlite, and some mycorraizae, that's about it. Then you feed them exactly what they need, and that is well documented. Now to answer your question. Repotting them should work in time. If they struggle you can clip them and root the cuttings as another option. It will take less than two weeks to root, then all of the foul mix is gone. Good luck

March 5, 2017	#11
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	And you are going to use this same mix in your raised beds too? Worth

March 6, 2017	#12
schill93 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2015 Location: Nevada Posts: 275	[QUOTE=Worth1;623515]And you are going to use this same mix in your raised beds too? Worth[/QUOT Yes, you bring up an excellent point, which actually has me much more concerned than the stunted growth plants. This is a very popular mix here in So. Nevada and is the most expensive mix they sell. That said, I'm still worried. I have some really over grown tomato plants that I planted "for practice" that are now three months old and in gallon to three gallon containers. I am going to put the over grown plants in first and hold back on my smaller ones. I have one out there laying down on the soil (with a plastic bag protecting the leaves from touching the soil), as I plan on planting that one on it's side, and hope the sun will bend the stem upwards in the next couple of days. So my plants are either too small or too big. What a hoot. On a more positive note, My new seedlings are doing great and some are over 3" from soil line already. Of all of the seeds I have planted, I am very impressed with the sturdiness of Black From Tulsa. It seems to be a very strong plant.

March 6, 2017	#13
Starlight Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: AL Posts: 1,993	I've had that problem before. "Oh buy this soil you'll love it and so will your plants!" Grrrrrrrrr bought 4 bags and 3 are still sitting out in yard 3 years later. They turned to like cement and way to heavy for me to lift. I kinda did what Farmer's Daughter suggested to save my plants only a bit different. I took a shallow rectangle type container, put some sand in the bottom and just a small amount of water, not enough to cover more than like 1/2" - 3/4" of the bottom of rootball at a time. I let the hard dirt clumps sit for an hour or two and then would gently swish the plant around. Having the sand in the container helped to loosen the soil off the roots without damaging or drowning them. Took time and effort as I did it in slow steps, but once I had the soil off and replanted and a little over a week of transplant shock they grew fine. If you putting that hard soil into a bed, you might consider adding some sand along the way too besides perlite and vermiculite. Hope you get it worked out and can save your plants.