Somethin fishy?

[Jimbotomateo]

A member posted recently about the benefits of fish fertilizer to ward off soil borne diseases. I'm planting soon . Any ideas. Trying to stay organic. Products. Fish in hole? I can get fresh kelp from the pacific. Can I use that somehow too? Does it matter the kind of fish? . Jimbo.

[SteveP]

I don't know the answer to your question, but I have some 30 gallon containers that I used last year with the medium still inside. I have been catching some crappie for the last 6 weeks or so and have been putting the carcasses of some of the fish in the containers and covering them up to keep the smell down. I planted tomatoes and peppers in the containers about 5 days ago along with some tomato tone, Epsom and watered them in with Bunny Berry tea. So far they look great. Time will tell.

I used fish emulsion and liquid kelp about every 2 weeks in these containers last year and they did very well except for a little BER so hopefully the Epsom will help with that this year. I look forward to seeing what the much more experienced say, because I am just winging it.

[bower]

Anything fish makes great fertilizer, but the less oily the fish the faster it will break down and be available to your plants. Lots of N and P in fish, and calcium too in the bones.
Kelp is a fantastic resource for plants and a good source of potassium, it makes tomatoes and other vegetables sweet. It also has many micronutrients as well as substances that act as plant hormones and improve response to stress of any kind (cold, drought, salt etc).
Ultimately the nutritional value of fish or kelp alone is worthwhile, as it does make for healthy plants that resist disease.

There might be specific benefits to specific kinds of seaweed, depending on what disease you are concerned about. I'm remember the pix Gerardo posted, many many kinds! in the Pacific as we have too in the Atlantic (but different ones).
Any kind of seaweed makes good fertilizer as a bulk source of K, and they all contain glycine betaine which is known to relieve stress in plants.
About soil borne disease I saw at least one study that kelp reduced soil nematodes (the bad ones), so good to try kelp for that.
I also read several studies about red seaweeds (rhodophyta) and that they found activity against tobacco mosaic virus.

Also as regards the soil borne diseases, I have heard about crab shell and shrimp shell being especially proven for that. Potato scab is a soil borne disease where I live, which is reduced or eliminated by tilling in the crab meal, and shrimp shell is being marketed for the same thing.
Crab shell and shrimp shell are structurally made of chitin, and this is a feedstock for the beneficial soil organisms like Trichoderma harzanium, that also destroy fungal pests (they are made of chitin too!). People pay big bucks to add T. harzanium to the soil, but in the larger ecosystem it is found everywhere worldwide in habitat like your backyard compost pile. Especially if you included shrimp or crab shell in the heap.

Ocean products rock.

[carolyn137]

Please read the following especially about Neptune Harvest.

http://www.tomatoville.com/search.php?searchid=2630299

Shrimp shells,etc. have been tried,elbon rye for Rkn's and most of the time it's just anecdotal reports,no controls,no nothing.

For soil borne diseases? There are many of them,which begs the question,which ones. Highly dependent on where you live and garden. And again,depending on where you live and which specific soilborne diseases might be there, they can be found in just one part of a garden and not in another areas of the same garden.

Carolyn

[bower]

Some interesting things to read here:
https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=...HAChEQgQMIIDAA

The first pdf (by K.L. Bailey , G. Lazarovits)
talks about organic amendments and high nitrogen amendments section 3.1, there was research involving fish meal and blood meal which suppressed verticillium in tomato pot trials. And in other research, other soil pathogens, with other high-N amendments.
And he goes on to say "Considerable evidence has accumulated to support
the view that ammonia liberation following application of high-N amendments is responsible for killing pathogens" And describes how results vary in different soils. And pH makes a dif too.
Also "It is not surprising therefore that numerous mixtures of amendments shown to con-
trol pathogens include urea as a key component of the mixture (i.e. Clandosan is a chitin–urea mixture) (Rodriguez-Kabana et al., 1989; Stirling, 1991). When urea is removed from these products they lose efficacy (Huang and Huang, 1993)."
This is news to me, as the products being promoted here are just crab or shrimp shell. Good point, Carolyn. We'll have to add fish too.
There is more after that about the increase in soil microbiota following organic N amendments. Composts and community dynamics, whew, yup we are wingin it here in the organic gardening. Not so much about the marine products except for that one fish meal!!! But hey, I'll take it.
I once buried 3/4 of a metric ton of caplin in my garden. Windfall from a fishplant, that was going to be dumped. Ten days of burying, from sunup to sundown. It was getting reeeeallly smelly by the tenth day. Good thing I didn't have any foxes then.

[AlittleSalt]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Please read the following especially about Neptune Harvest.

http://www.tomatoville.com/search.php?searchid=2630299

Shrimp shells,etc. have been tried,elbon rye for Rkn's and most of the time it's just anecdotal reports,no controls,no nothing.

For soil borne diseases? There are many of them,which begs the question,which ones. Highly dependent on where you live and garden. And again,depending on where you live and which specific soilborne diseases might be there, they can be found in just one part of a garden and not in another areas of the same garden.

Carolyn

Carolyn, when I click on the link, it says, "Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms."

[Jimbotomateo]

Originally Posted by AlittleSalt

Carolyn, when I click on the link, it says, "Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms."

Salt I got the same thing. . Steve P if it ain't broke , don't fix it. Love what your doin, let us know how it works out. Wow Bower, thanks for all the great info.. Now I gotta read it all.. Sounds like anything from the oceans and even lakes rivers, is a good thing.. Sorry I didn't respond sooner, my wife asked if I wanted to run up the coast and get fish.. Duh! . Gotta get with it, the plants are blowing up with the plant tone MissS recommended.. Like to plant these seedlings before the weekends out. I think Carolyn's recommending Neptunes Harvest. Strong consideration for that one in the name of expediency.. Thanks immensely. Jimbo .

[Gardeneer]

I am not an organic gardener but I think most fish fertilizers do not have balanced nutrients. They are mostly rich in Nitrogen. I know this because I use Alaska fish fert . It has 5-1-1 composition.
JMO

[carolyn137]

OK, try BOTH of these links

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q...arvest+reviews

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...eptune+harvest

Carolyn

[Jimbotomateo]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

OK, try BOTH of these links

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q...arvest+reviews

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...eptune+harvest

Carolyn

Sooooollld! . Now do I get it at my local Hydroponic place or online? 33 plants. One or five gallon? Jimbo

[bower]

Yeah, using raw fish, kelp, shell materials etc. is labor intensive and smelly. I had some shrimp shell meal gifted to me last year, lord that was ripe. Bury is all you can do. Deep so critters don't dig for it.

I need to get down to the beach for some kelp. It'll be dried by this time I guess so I'll crush it which is easier than chopping the raw stuff. Makes a great mulch straight from the ocean though.

The fish emulsion is smelly too, one thing you can do is to add some blackstrap molasses. That helps to add some potassium to the mix as well as micronutrients, and it really cuts the smell. I use the stuff on potted plants in the house.

If you have access to gather seaweed you can just make a pile of it and let it compost for a season, it'll be fantastic for next year. It won't smell unless you turn it.

[Jimbotomateo]

Originally Posted by bower

Yeah, using raw fish, kelp, shell materials etc. is labor intensive and smelly. I had some shrimp shell meal gifted to me last year, lord that was ripe. Bury is all you can do. Deep so critters don't dig for it.

I need to get down to the beach for some kelp. It'll be dried by this time I guess so I'll crush it which is easier than chopping the raw stuff. Makes a great mulch straight from the ocean though.

The fish emulsion is smelly too, one thing you can do is to add some blackstrap molasses. That helps to add some potassium to the mix as well as micronutrients, and it really cuts the smell. I use the stuff on potted plants in the house.

If you have access to gather seaweed you can just make a pile of it and let it compost for a season, it'll be fantastic for next year. It won't smell unless you turn it.

Thanks Bower. I picked up a big contractor bag of kelp last summer but it's currently under my compost pile. I'll get some more and pile it up for the summer. Should be good for next year. I think the fish processing places would give the carcasses away. :. Jimbo

[greenthumbomaha]

Fish is very good. Native American custom is to plant a fish head under the plant and say a prayer. No artificial fertilizer back in the day.

- Lisa

[coronabarb]

Gosh, it's been more than a few yrs since I've grown NAR but I remember it as being outstanding. As far as fish products, I always fear I will draw cats and coons to my garden. I know my dogs think it smells delightful.