Question about re-transplant

jwr6404 · March 21, 2007

I started Zogola,Delicious,Sungolds and Indian Striped seeds in an egg carton. When they got their second set of leaves I transplanted them into a 3 inch diameter peat cup they are doing well,which is a first for me. Problem is that it appears that the plants will out grow the present containers so I purchased some 6 inch peat containers. Question can my tomato plants be transferred a second time into a larger container until they are planted in their permanent location. I hope so because if not, I goofed.

**mdvpc** · March 21, 2007

Jim-you sure can. In fact, you can transplant as many times as necessary. Some folks will tell you your plant will take a few days to recover from the "transplant shock," some folks will tell you in the final analysis, it will be good for your plant. I transplant at least twice every year. Just be careful when you do the transplant not to damage the roots and plant.

spyfferoni · March 22, 2007

I would make sure that you remove the plants from the peat pot before you plant it again. The roots take longer to go through them then regular seed starting mix or even soil. I had some problems a couple of years ago. While the roots eventually grew through the peat pot I planted in the ground, it took a lot longer to establish a root system then my tomatoes planted in cups that I removed before planting, so it was as if I planted that plant later than the others and I hardly got any ripe fruit from it before we got frost.

Tyff

Tomstrees · March 22, 2007

Last year I had to replant a number of times because I planted way to early, and the weather would not cooperate ...
You can def. tansplant into bigger pots.

What I usually do it start them in peat pots then go to 16oz. beer cups.
This year will be different:
72 Cell seed tray - straight to 16oz beer cups ~

Tom

michael johnson · March 24, 2007

I never use peat pots -because they always give trouble in one way or another,

I normaly sow the seeds into little plastic pots three inches or less, and then when they are big enough-transplant them into five inch pots individually , where they stay for about six weeks before planting them into their final growing place.

It is a good plan to check on the root growth at about the four week stage-by quickly turning a plant upside down and knocking the edge of the pot on a bench which then usualy comes off clean, you can then see if the roots are beginning to run round the bottom of the pot- or have completely filled it- if filled -then they are ready for planting out.

Another way of telling- is that at about the six week stage -in five inch pots, all the ones that are ready usualy become top heavy and keep falling over on their sides-which usualy means that they are sucking up all the water out of the base rather quickly and are ready to go out,

**carolyn137** · March 24, 2007

I think what folks do re transplanting is directly related to how many plants they're raising and what space they have available to them.

I know when I was growing around 500-1000 plants/season I used the same method that commercial farmers use and that means one transplant from the seed pan,or whatever, I used a professional 20 row insert, to plastic cells about 2 X 2 inches, 32 to the insert in a normal standard nursery tray, and then grew them on to outside transplant size of about 6 to 9 inches in those same 2 inch cells.

Works fine.

So different methods for persons with different needs and different available space to grow seedlings.

My farmer friend Charlie pots up some plants for wholesale in one gal containers and they go like hotcakes at retail, and a few times he's had some left over and has used them himself. Looking at those plants versus the ones raised as I described above you'll never convince me that larger plants are better in terms of acclimation to outside conditions. Those large fibrous roots are also easily broken when transplanted.

Just my opinion.

Suze · March 28, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwr6404

I started Zogola,Delicious,Sungolds and Indian Striped seeds in an egg carton. When they got their second set of leaves I transplanted them into a 3 inch diameter peat cup they are doing well,which is a first for me. Problem is that it appears that the plants will out grow the present containers so I purchased some 6 inch peat containers. Question can my tomato plants be transferred a second time into a larger container until they are planted in their permanent location. I hope so because if not, I goofed.

Sure, you can do more than one than one transplant. Whether or not it may best meet your needs/time expended depends on the circumstances. My understanding is that experienced tomato gardeners in the PNW tend to prefer fairly decent sized transplants.

For my area, I may do at least two transplants, and bigger transplants do work better in my climate, based on my experience. For one, our soil never really cools down, so larger plants can adapt right away when planted.

Damaging roots isn't a problem the way I see it, because, well -- I don't manhandle transplants.

Seems easy enough to just carefully remove the rootball out of the container when planting. Watering them beforehand makes all that much easier to pop the rootball out intact.

dice · February 22, 2009

You could try some both ways, then decide after they have been
in the garden a few weeks which way was more convenient for
you and which plants look sturdier and healthier.

I have started seeds directly in the larger pots that one would
pot up into when I was sprouting them in wet paper towels.
These were old seeds that I was not sure how long it would
take to sprout, so I had started soaking them a few weeks
earlier than normal. Since I already had a sprouted seed on
those and it would be 8-10 weeks until they would be
transplanted into the garden, it seemed like an unnecessary
step to put them in tiny pots first and then pot up a few weeks
later. With that much time before transplant, they should grow
a sufficient root system either way.

Jimche · February 23, 2009

Dice,
I like the idea of experimenting with both methods, and might do that if I can find the time. I'll report back with results, either way. Thanks.
Jim

TZ-OH6 · February 23, 2009

One problem with direct seedeng into a large pot is that you end up with a shallow root base and plants can get knocked over easily during maintenance. When you repot you usually set the base of the plant deep (bury part of the stem). You can get around this when direct potting by simply starting with only a little bit of soil in the pot and then topping off when the seedling is taller.

I only need about two plants per variety so I plant four seeds in a 4" pot, 1/4 full of mix...grow these to the first leaf stage and then repot all but one, and then fill up the original pot with mix. That way I don't have to mess with/buy jiffy pellets, newspaper rolls, cell flats, etc. I got the thin plastic 4" pots at the local nursery, for 7cents each (had to ask for them though, not on the shelf).

Jimche · February 24, 2009

Thanks, TZ-OH6. I may try that tirck of adding soil after they've grown might work.

Is it correct that most other vegetables (e.g., peppers) don't require deeper transplanting (or burying) to get a good root system?

TZ-OH6 · February 26, 2009

Tomatoes (being vines) are about the only thing other than cucumber/mellon/squash vines that put out adventitious roots from the stem. Vegetables that normally stand up on their own, like peppers, generally only put roots out from the original base of the plant. There is no harm in repotting a baby pepper an inch or two deep though, it keeps them from falling/ over or washing out when you water them too vigourously, you just don't want to treat them the same way you would a tomatoe when you put them in the ground (pulling off leaves and deep planting).

Jimche · February 26, 2009

Thanks, TZ. I was wondering why growing tomatoes required burying the stems deeper after they germinate and when you plant them, given that tomato plants in the wild do not get this treatment. I gather the reason is that a more robust root system helps them to stand upright, whereas they might be more naturally inclined to sprawl along the ground, sprouting roots wherever they can. I know how they feel - I'd rather sprawl out than be tied to a stake or stuck in a cage, but that's just me. We are very short on space and long on tomato variety ambition, though, so we'll probably stick with the stakes and cages.

TZ-OH6 · February 27, 2009

Looks like I was wrong. I checked the FAQS on the GW hotpepper forum and it seems a couple of ag studies found higher production of peppers when they were treated like tomatoes...deep planted to the first leaves.

Jimche · April 16, 2009

Had an interesting conversation with a farmer who grew thousands of tomato plants each year for 10 years. He pretty much confirmed what Carolyn said above, perhaps going a bit further. In his experience, seedlings can be germinated and grown until outside transplant in 72-cell inserts, with no adverse effects. I tend to take his opinion seriously, as he has lots of practical experience, thinks critically and participates in educational opportunities with friends at the Rutgers agriculture department. So, I was initially bothered that I'd built a seed-starting setup that was twice as big (and expensive) as may have been necessary. Then, I realized that next year, I'll be able to do twice as many seedlings

. Would be interested to hear feedback from any who have tried several different approaches (under reasonably similar conditions).

March 21, 2007	#1
jwr6404 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: University Place, WA Posts: 481	Question about re-transplant I started Zogola,Delicious,Sungolds and Indian Striped seeds in an egg carton. When they got their second set of leaves I transplanted them into a 3 inch diameter peat cup they are doing well,which is a first for me. Problem is that it appears that the plants will out grow the present containers so I purchased some 6 inch peat containers. Question can my tomato plants be transferred a second time into a larger container until they are planted in their permanent location. I hope so because if not, I goofed. __________________ Jim

March 21, 2007	#2
mdvpc Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 4,386	Jim-you sure can. In fact, you can transplant as many times as necessary. Some folks will tell you your plant will take a few days to recover from the "transplant shock," some folks will tell you in the final analysis, it will be good for your plant. I transplant at least twice every year. Just be careful when you do the transplant not to damage the roots and plant. __________________ Michael

March 22, 2007	#4
Tomstrees Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NJ Bayshore Posts: 3,848	Last year I had to replant a number of times because I planted way to early, and the weather would not cooperate ... You can def. tansplant into bigger pots. What I usually do it start them in peat pots then go to 16oz. beer cups. This year will be different: 72 Cell seed tray - straight to 16oz beer cups ~ Tom __________________ My green thumb came only as a result of the mistakes I made while learning to see things from the plant's point of view. ~ H. Fred Ale

March 24, 2007	#6
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	I think what folks do re transplanting is directly related to how many plants they're raising and what space they have available to them. I know when I was growing around 500-1000 plants/season I used the same method that commercial farmers use and that means one transplant from the seed pan,or whatever, I used a professional 20 row insert, to plastic cells about 2 X 2 inches, 32 to the insert in a normal standard nursery tray, and then grew them on to outside transplant size of about 6 to 9 inches in those same 2 inch cells. Works fine. So different methods for persons with different needs and different available space to grow seedlings. My farmer friend Charlie pots up some plants for wholesale in one gal containers and they go like hotcakes at retail, and a few times he's had some left over and has used them himself. Looking at those plants versus the ones raised as I described above you'll never convince me that larger plants are better in terms of acclimation to outside conditions. Those large fibrous roots are also easily broken when transplanted. Just my opinion. __________________ Carolyn

February 22, 2009	#8
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	You could try some both ways, then decide after they have been in the garden a few weeks which way was more convenient for you and which plants look sturdier and healthier. I have started seeds directly in the larger pots that one would pot up into when I was sprouting them in wet paper towels. These were old seeds that I was not sure how long it would take to sprout, so I had started soaking them a few weeks earlier than normal. Since I already had a sprouted seed on those and it would be 8-10 weeks until they would be transplanted into the garden, it seemed like an unnecessary step to put them in tiny pots first and then pot up a few weeks later. With that much time before transplant, they should grow a sufficient root system either way. __________________ -- alias

March 22, 2007	#3
spyfferoni Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Utah Posts: 675	I would make sure that you remove the plants from the peat pot before you plant it again. The roots take longer to go through them then regular seed starting mix or even soil. I had some problems a couple of years ago. While the roots eventually grew through the peat pot I planted in the ground, it took a lot longer to establish a root system then my tomatoes planted in cups that I removed before planting, so it was as if I planted that plant later than the others and I hardly got any ripe fruit from it before we got frost. Tyff

March 24, 2007	#5
michael johnson Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK. Posts: 960	I never use peat pots -because they always give trouble in one way or another, I normaly sow the seeds into little plastic pots three inches or less, and then when they are big enough-transplant them into five inch pots individually , where they stay for about six weeks before planting them into their final growing place. It is a good plan to check on the root growth at about the four week stage-by quickly turning a plant upside down and knocking the edge of the pot on a bench which then usualy comes off clean, you can then see if the roots are beginning to run round the bottom of the pot- or have completely filled it- if filled -then they are ready for planting out. Another way of telling- is that at about the six week stage -in five inch pots, all the ones that are ready usualy become top heavy and keep falling over on their sides-which usualy means that they are sucking up all the water out of the base rather quickly and are ready to go out,

February 23, 2009	#9
Jimche Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 58	Dice, I like the idea of experimenting with both methods, and might do that if I can find the time. I'll report back with results, either way. Thanks. Jim

February 23, 2009	#10
TZ-OH6 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mid-Ohio Posts: 848	One problem with direct seedeng into a large pot is that you end up with a shallow root base and plants can get knocked over easily during maintenance. When you repot you usually set the base of the plant deep (bury part of the stem). You can get around this when direct potting by simply starting with only a little bit of soil in the pot and then topping off when the seedling is taller. I only need about two plants per variety so I plant four seeds in a 4" pot, 1/4 full of mix...grow these to the first leaf stage and then repot all but one, and then fill up the original pot with mix. That way I don't have to mess with/buy jiffy pellets, newspaper rolls, cell flats, etc. I got the thin plastic 4" pots at the local nursery, for 7cents each (had to ask for them though, not on the shelf).

February 24, 2009	#11
Jimche Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 58	Thanks, TZ-OH6. I may try that tirck of adding soil after they've grown might work. Is it correct that most other vegetables (e.g., peppers) don't require deeper transplanting (or burying) to get a good root system?

February 26, 2009	#12
TZ-OH6 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mid-Ohio Posts: 848	Tomatoes (being vines) are about the only thing other than cucumber/mellon/squash vines that put out adventitious roots from the stem. Vegetables that normally stand up on their own, like peppers, generally only put roots out from the original base of the plant. There is no harm in repotting a baby pepper an inch or two deep though, it keeps them from falling/ over or washing out when you water them too vigourously, you just don't want to treat them the same way you would a tomatoe when you put them in the ground (pulling off leaves and deep planting).

February 27, 2009	#14
TZ-OH6 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mid-Ohio Posts: 848	Looks like I was wrong. I checked the FAQS on the GW hotpepper forum and it seems a couple of ag studies found higher production of peppers when they were treated like tomatoes...deep planted to the first leaves.

April 16, 2009	#15
Jimche Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 58	Had an interesting conversation with a farmer who grew thousands of tomato plants each year for 10 years. He pretty much confirmed what Carolyn said above, perhaps going a bit further. In his experience, seedlings can be germinated and grown until outside transplant in 72-cell inserts, with no adverse effects. I tend to take his opinion seriously, as he has lots of practical experience, thinks critically and participates in educational opportunities with friends at the Rutgers agriculture department. So, I was initially bothered that I'd built a seed-starting setup that was twice as big (and expensive) as may have been necessary. Then, I realized that next year, I'll be able to do twice as many seedlings . Would be interested to hear feedback from any who have tried several different approaches (under reasonably similar conditions).