Indeterminates and growth habit

GreenThumbGal_07 · June 6, 2020

I'm growing only indeterminate varieties this summer.
So I thought I'd count the number of "true" leaves before the first flower truss appeared.
Here are my results:
Saint Pierre, Santa Clara Canner, Prue, Dufresne: 9
Rinaldo: 10
Each plant appears to have 9-10 true leaves, then a distinct "fork" in the main stem which is not a sucker, then the first flower truss.
I used to think it was 7 true leaves before flowering, now I know.
Sugar Lump is still too small, no flowers yet.
Last time I grew tomatoes, I did not prune. This time I did: took off the first 5 or 6 suckers, to make the plant more manageable. These plants are big, even in 7 or 15 gallon pots.

bower · June 6, 2020

Most of the ones I grow are '7's, but I've seen a ten or two, iirc it is typical of paste type tomatoes. I'm not sure why the breeders selected that but, there it is.

The number of leaves before the first cluster is genetically independent of other growth habit traits.

zipcode · June 7, 2020

I had same variety between 7 and 11 leaves depending on year. I think what is fixed might be the minimum for a specific variety.
It's all about conditions as a seedling. Light is the first to determine earliness. How well fertilized, probably temperature and day/night difference, maybe also stress caused by too small cup, etc.
My most early has been one year Stupice, with 5 leaves, which is too soon imo.

GreenThumbGal_07 · June 10, 2020

Thanks Bower and Zipcode,
I went to the Tomato Genetics Resource Center (https://tgrc.ucdavis.edu/) and looked at their list of genes and phenotypes (downloadable Excel file, link is in the top page) to see if there was a gene or phenotype for (indeterminate varieties) number of true leaves/leaf nodes before the first flower truss. No luck. It did mention having longer or shorter internodes on the plant, though. I suppose I could follow up with them to be sure.

June 6, 2020	#1
GreenThumbGal_07 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Northern California Posts: 300	Indeterminates and growth habit I'm growing only indeterminate varieties this summer. So I thought I'd count the number of "true" leaves before the first flower truss appeared. Here are my results: Saint Pierre, Santa Clara Canner, Prue, Dufresne: 9 Rinaldo: 10 Each plant appears to have 9-10 true leaves, then a distinct "fork" in the main stem which is not a sucker, then the first flower truss. I used to think it was 7 true leaves before flowering, now I know. Sugar Lump is still too small, no flowers yet. Last time I grew tomatoes, I did not prune. This time I did: took off the first 5 or 6 suckers, to make the plant more manageable. These plants are big, even in 7 or 15 gallon pots.

June 6, 2020	#2
bower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 6,794	Most of the ones I grow are '7's, but I've seen a ten or two, iirc it is typical of paste type tomatoes. I'm not sure why the breeders selected that but, there it is. The number of leaves before the first cluster is genetically independent of other growth habit traits.

June 7, 2020	#3
zipcode Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Romania/Germany , z 4-6 Posts: 1,582	I had same variety between 7 and 11 leaves depending on year. I think what is fixed might be the minimum for a specific variety. It's all about conditions as a seedling. Light is the first to determine earliness. How well fertilized, probably temperature and day/night difference, maybe also stress caused by too small cup, etc. My most early has been one year Stupice, with 5 leaves, which is too soon imo.

June 10, 2020	#4
GreenThumbGal_07 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Northern California Posts: 300	Thanks Bower and Zipcode, I went to the Tomato Genetics Resource Center (https://tgrc.ucdavis.edu/) and looked at their list of genes and phenotypes (downloadable Excel file, link is in the top page) to see if there was a gene or phenotype for (indeterminate varieties) number of true leaves/leaf nodes before the first flower truss. No luck. It did mention having longer or shorter internodes on the plant, though. I suppose I could follow up with them to be sure.