Dependable, Prolific, & Disease Resist Heirloom Tomatoes

[Gerald51]

I love to grow heirloom tomatoes because most of them taste better than hybrid tomatoes. The downside is that most split and aren't as vigorous and disease resistant as hybrid tomatoes. Are there any heirloom tomatoes that taste great and have good hybrid traits?

[PaulF]

Having been an heirloom and OP tomato grower for a few more years than many would admit, this is my take on your statement:

1)yes, the favor of "real" tomatoes is better. 2) splitting has never been a problem with the over 300 varieties I have grown except when the plants with fruit have received too much water either from excess rain or watering. Some cherry tomatoes tend to split but this trait is common with hybrids as well as heirloom/OP varieties. 3) If by vigor you mean production, in some varieties you may be correct but with many heirlooms the productivity would match a similar hybrid. Still, I would rather give up a little production for the taste of a really good tomato.

And then 4) disease resistance: In about 45 years of growing tomatoes and several different locations (called moving) and beginning with growing only hybrids for 20 years and then "discovering" heirlooms/OPs in 1999, I have this to say about disease resistance. In hybrids the disease resistance genes bred into the varieties really only resists some of the diseases present for a day or two or a week at most. This is a trait meant for tomato farmers on a commercial basis so that the harvest can be extended to either save the farm.

For the home grower a couple of days is meaningless. With a garden full of a combination of hybrids and heirlooms I have never seen that one type resists disease any better than the other. (In my gardens hybrids fared far worse than heirlooms but that statement has no proof and could be coincidental) In my opinion disease resistance is achieved not by variety but by cultural practices.

In the beginning I grew tomatoes like my father; in rows of plants with very little space between plants on bare dirt with wire as support with plants flopping however they wanted and the plants watered from a sprinkler overhead. Diseases were rampant and some years I had very little harvest. With experience and a little research I figured out my problem. I was not the varieties or the type tomatoes. For me hybrids were as much the problem as heirlooms.

Each tomato was given space and grown in cages for adequate airflow and a mulching program to keep bare soil from touching foliage and watering was done at the base of the plant rather than watering from above onto the leaves. These simple steps almost put an end to disease problems. Completely disease free? Absolutely not! Enough to make it into October in my area without a real problem? Yes!

Observing the health of the tomato plants as the season progresses also helps. At the first sight of a problem discovering the cause also helps. It may not be microbial but insect or some other pest and this can be addressed with appropriate action...physical or chemical.

For me, there are so many really good heirloom/OP tomato varieties and so few good tasting hybrids, by paying attention to growing practices most of the disease problems that actually affect both types can be eliminated. Production is a factor of variety so that comes with experience, how each variety does in your area and by word of mouth from similar growers.

This long essay is only part of what can be said about the topic but in my experience I would rather have tomatoes that match my desires (size, color, flavor, growth habits, etc.) than make do with what the box stores sell.

How the tomatoes are grown is the difference maker.

[Dark Rumor]

Originally Posted by PaulF

Each tomato was given space and grown in cages for adequate airflow and a mulching program to keep bare soil from touching foliage and watering was done at the base of the plant rather than watering from above onto the leaves. These simple steps almost put an end to disease problems. Completely disease free? Absolutely not! Enough to make it into October in my area without a real problem? Yes!

How the tomatoes are grown is the difference maker.

When I started pruning the lower branches (keep the leaves off the ground), using a weed mat, watering with drip line and taking action when a problem first arises is when I finally reduced most of the leaf diseases and I only grow open pollenated tomatoes. Also good soil and fertilizer helps the plant become strong.

I would also say that I grow dwarf varieties in the City Picker planters and I do not recall having major disease issues with them. Some of the dwarfs have excellent flavor, Tasmainian Chocolate is one of the best tasting tomatoes I grow, not the biggest or the most productive but well worth a planter or two.

Now if I could only learn how to reduce/eliminate stink bugs and squash bugs when the weather hits 90 degrees.

[RayR]

When you talk of "Disease Resistance", you have to talk about what diseases you are most concerned about and subject to in your area of the country/world. All tomato varieties whether OP or hybrid will not to be resistant to all diseases.
I agree with Paul, growing practices can make all the difference in minimizing disease issues.

[Saskatchetoon]

Originally Posted by Gerald51

I love to grow heirloom tomatoes because most of them taste better than hybrid tomatoes. The downside is that most split and aren't as vigorous and disease resistant as hybrid tomatoes. Are there any heirloom tomatoes that taste great and have good hybrid traits?

Have you considered grafting? I share your opinion of heirlooms and their shortcomings. I'm going into my second season now where I'll graft heirlooms onto Maxifort rootstock. It really is the best of both worlds in terms of disease resistance, yield, flavor, etc. It's all of the great things about heirlooms with most of the negative aspects strongly mitigated.

[zeuspaul]

This will vary with growing conditions. I find that some varieties are more prone to splitting than others. For me Japanese Black Trifele is productive and does not split and outlasts most of my other plants. I also grow Carbon because it produces blemish/split free tomatoes.

[bbjm]

I routinely grew Big Beef and Sungold as the only two hybrids in my garden. IN MY GARDEN, Big Beef was a good producer and tasted fine but I didn't notice a great deal of disease resistance and have stopped growing it. Sungold splits when others won't and ultimately gets ravished with some kind of disease worse than many heirlooms. But I get a good crop before disease hits and the taste is worth the trouble.

IN MY GARDEN, KBX and Prue seem to survive better than most. Which is a good thing because KBX is one of the last to produce and Prue takes a bit as well. They are two of the best-tasting tomatoes as well -- in my opinion.

I am trying my hand at grafting Cherokee Purple which does not do well in my garden. So far 3 of the 6 have died, so I'm pretty bad at it. We'll see if any of them make it to the garden and how it changes results.

[seaeagle]

Arkansas Traveler checks all the boxes. Just as good or better growing traits as any hybrid I have ever grown. While other tomatoes seem to decline in production, Arkansas Traveler picks up in production at the end and holds its taste in cool weather unlike some other heirlooms. Green tomatoes ripen well inside.



I am also trying some other old University bred heirlooms this year, Atkinson and Bradley. I think these type of tomatoes may be the Rodney Dangerfield of heirlooms

[Fusion_power]

Cherokee Purple is noted for better than average disease tolerance.

Burgundy Traveler is slightly better than Arkansas Traveler though both are good productive tomatoes.

Eva Purple Ball is one of the most tolerant to foliage diseases.

Druzba can handle more problems than most.

Lynnwood delivers superb flavor along with excellent production.

Heidi is a very good heat and disease tolerant paste determinate

If you care to get Lorelei cherry, it produces a nice red cherry with better than average disease tolerance.

[seaeagle]

So I had to go and find and purchase Burgundy Traveler. While I was there I also purchased Lillian's Yellow Heirloom, Green Giant, Nepal and .Weisnicht's Ukrainian. I won't plant any of these this year but they will keep


Found these at TimsTomatoes. Had Burgundy Traveler and a few others I wanted all in one place. Had good reviews, couldn't find any negatives

[swordy]

As PaulF said above, I have also noticed that hybrids growing next to heirlooms/OP tend to behave almost the same way in diseases. Last season it was really bad for me and by mid August all crop was completely destroyed. It started from a spot where the heirlooms were situated and gradually spread to all plants, killing some of them faster than others, but all died eventually. And you know, it was the first time I said I would try different plant nurseries and I bought several different types of hybrids, that vendors said actually that they were newer and better hybrids (and since I bought them locally they should have also been ideal for our place). To tell the truth, compared to heirlooms/OP in terms of productivity there was no match. Ok, maybe the heirlooms I grew last year weren't ideal for my place. But as Paul said, I'd prefer a lower productivity and better taste, than high productivity and a moderate good taste. And since they can all catch a disease and die, then there is no need for going to hybrids..

[KarenO]

I’m not sure how it’s possible to lump all “ hybrids” together as not disease resistant (and without naming the hybrids among the hundreds available and without naming the specific diseases?
KarenO

I

[creeker]

Right, Karen O. As far as I know the only tomatoes with resistance (or tolerance) to nematodes are certain (not all) hybrids which have that resistance bred into them.

[JRinPA]

Good thread, good thread. I always learn a lot listening to these growers.


I grew Eva Purple Ball a couple years; they would fall off when they were ripe. I'd find them on the ground under the cage. Later I read that was a trait of that variety. I look for the just the opposite, long on the branch without going soft or splitting.

Originally Posted by Gerald51

I love to grow heirloom tomatoes because most of them taste better than hybrid tomatoes. The downside is that most split and aren't as vigorous and disease resistant as hybrid tomatoes. Are there any heirloom tomatoes that taste great and have good hybrid traits?

It is kind a lump all assertion there, but I know what you mean and have to agree in part.


What I appreciate about hybrids - Big Beef F1, Estiva F1, Sungold F1, Sunsugar F1 being my favorites - is the reliable fruit set. The flower trusses fill out remarkably well. It is common for nearly every truss that starts to set fruit - bang bang bang bang bang. The regular tomatoes, on the later trusses, may not get huge, but they are still setting when some of my heirlooms are throwing truss 3, 4, 5, with 0, 1, or 2 tomatoes on them. And they stay "red" on the plant for long time, without going soft and rotting. But primarily, it is the flower characteristics that set them apart. I don't know how or why, but they set cleanly - not lumping together to form fused fruits, and not failing very often.


The drawback - the taste is NOT as good. They are not as sweet. The color is NOT as red, more an orange-ish red. I can use them for BLTs, but I'd rather have a good heirloom slicer. They are still much better than grocery store. And they provide insurance, because I make a lot of different sauces and soups for the rest of the year. So I like to grow 25-50% hybrids, though the last few years, closer to 25%. Maybe I am getting better at growing tomatoes - I mean, I hope I am. But maybe just the weather has been cooperative.


Heirloom varieties - my favorite being Cuostralee, a big red one that sets well- offer a lot of variety in color, size, texture, and taste. But...fruit set. It is just a lot more spotty at times. Especially after the second truss and the weather starts getting stinking hot and humid, but hardly any rain. Or, the first trusses are ripe, second are starting to blush, and then, tons of rain. That is when I'll start to see lot of split/burst tomatoes. And maybe a lot of what gets picked, gets soft and rotty on the counter in no time and the fruit flies appear.


But when heirlooms get nice good weather, and I pay attention when they are coming ripe and don't ignore them, they are better. No question in my mind. Last year was pretty good. Hopefully this year will be too.


I have not seen much difference when it comes to disease - for me, disease is mostly the common, annoying but rather slow marching foliage diseases. EB. Septoria. Bacterial Speck. What are you going to do, it is nature, the old leaves are spent, they have less defense, they get spotty, they die. I have not seen much difference between hybrid or heirloom in that regard. It has been years since we had a killing disease drop from the sky- late blight or gray mold. Knock on wood, enough said.


I could give you my whole grow list if you want it, but I am big believer in local climates. I honestly could be happy with the ones listed. What grows well here, my weather, my soil, with my methods, might not grow well for you.



I think your best source is a day at the post office, asking your neighbors what their favorites are. Of course I say that, but around here about 80% or more of those answers would be "I like beefsteaks","early girl", or "cherry". So maybe that is not the way to go.

[Yak54]

JRinPA

A very good replacement for Eva Purple Ball is Rose De Berne which is very similar but doesn't fall off the plant. Very good taste & production.

Dan