Nicholaevna info please...

[COgarden]

I recently read a post where MtnMaters glowingly mentioned a variety called "Nicholaevna". I've never heard of it and after a quick search online I only found one place that carries seed, "Anioleka Seeds". Never heard of them either! The description at Anioleka said virtually nothing about taste (usually a bad thing), but MtnMaters seemed to have had great experiences with it. Please chime in, MtnMaters, or any others with experience with this one.

Kurt

[carolyn137]

I see one listing for it in the 2005 SSE Yearbook, my 2006 is out in the other room.

85 days, indet, reg leaf with good yield of 12-18 oz fruit, very good flavor, from CV Anioleka Seeds, Scotland, in 04

It was listed as Nicholaevna Pink.

Anioleka Seeds, aka Seedfest, and other names, was formed by Andrei, of Russian descent and Kelley, in Oregon quite a few years ago. They moved the business to Sctoland a few years ago and last year moved back to the US back to Oregon.

I must say that several of the blurbs do bother me, but there are many Russian varieties that are of interest. So much so that that's the source of what Gary Ibsen at Tomatofest called Sunset Horizon, and the original name is Rostova as listed at Aniolka, and yes, there was some kind of agreement, I guess, between them, but something happened such that last time I looked the Rostova blurb at Anioleka had a cautionary note.

And you'll see that the blurb at Tomatofest is the about the same as the original for ROstova at Anioleka. I don't know what happened and don't really want to know.

Sorry I can't be of more help about this variety but it's one of many I haven't grown.

[Andrey_BY]

Kurt, all I can say I've never heard about tomato variety with such a name in Russia.

First of all there is a mistake in it's name - the right is Nikolaevna. It is a traditional Russian kind of Father's name always goes with your name. It means this female's father has a name Nikolay.

But you can see it's taste describtion on the Ironbob's web-site:

http://home.iprimus.com.au/ironbarkbob/seed/notes.htm

I know Anioleka people distribute many "so-called" Russian varieties. And don't like all this hype about Rostova tomato, because nobody knows such tomato variety in Russia at all (“Rostovskaya Krasno Ispolin”). There is again a mistake in it's name. The right is Rostov (after the famous Russian city Rostov).

As I can see on Anioleka web-site from it's history that's just another occasional name for the variety known in Russia with the different name. It is written Rostova is known as “Rostovskaya Krasno Ispolin” in Russia. This Russian name literally translates to mean "Red Giant of Rostov". OK, let's forget they used completely wrong cases in the Russian name. But what can I see it could be just popular Ispolin tomato variety well-known in Russia and abroad. It has very similar describtion with Rostova! Bye-bye, Rostova or Sunset's Red Horizon or Anioleka's reputation!
Let's grow original Ispolin tomato and don't believe all these soap fairytales about newly discovered heirloom Russian tomatoes, very very very rare!!! :wink:

[carolyn137]

Andrey, I have to admit I'm sitting here laughing very hard.

You saw in my above post that I said I didn't like some of the blurbs, as in tomato descriptions, at Anioleka/Seedfest, but you certainly took them to task better than I ever could.

So thanks for that.

And Andrey, who is a partner in Anioleka IS Russian so I think one has to say that there's more than a bit of hype or what we call PR that goes into some of those blurbs to make something look unique and not available elsewhere.

[COgarden]

I love getting good solid information like you've both given here. The first year I grew tomatoes I bought "Sunset's Red Horizon" from Tomatofest. It was a tasty tomato but I was disgusted when I got more of the scoop with regards to how it got its name. I happily took Rostova to be its correct name. Now I find out that Rostova isn't correct either!

All of this renaming is really creating a mess that I'm afraid may be spreading and can never be reversed. Carolyn has spoken many times on this, and I'm coming to share her frustration.

Thanks to Andry_BY and Carolyn137 for such great information.

MtnMaters--- I'm still interested in what you thought about "Nicholaevna", though I won't be giving Anioleka any of my money for seeds!


Kurt

[MtnMaters]

Hmmm... don't know what to say about all that taxonomy stuff, But I've grown what UKSeeds calls Nicholaevna Rosovije, or Nicholaevna Pink. They are the tomato pictured in my avatar. I have never seen them presented as NiKolaevna anywhere, even though I get your point about Russian patriarchal names, Andrey. What I grow are obviously NOT what is listed in the SSE. Mine are PL, NOT RL, more round than flat (well, they look like the picture) 85 days sounds 'bout right, yeah, a 1# on avg, and mine did come from one of Anioleka's sister "sites", UK-seeds. Here's a link with a little info. These also look NOTHING like the Nicholaevna that one sees for sale on ebay, coming out of AU. Introduced to the Western World in 2001. Originating from Smolensk in Western Russia.
http://www.uk-seeds.net/tomatoes/tomatoes.html
My Take: The ones I've grown are every bit as good as a Brandywine, maybe not quite as "candylike" ( I know, I use this term a lot)...but I'm going to say more complex, especially in the aftertaste. Think of a BWs prettier sister that also holds a MENSA card, is somewhat aloof but somehow easier to get into the backseat, and there ya have it. It is one of the varieties that (supposedly) consistently beats BWs in taste tests in Europe, and the Nicholaevna seems more tolerant (to everything) in my garden than Casp Pink or BW either one, and has a higher yield. I will tell you this: in US taste tests conducted in my own garden amongst my own tribe and friends, they'll beat BW 7 out of 10 times by the ones that truly enjoy all varieties of tomatoes. When ripe, they are near the color of a fresh salmon that you've just gutted while it is still wigglin', maybe slightly redder. Lay them on a table between your BWs and Caspians and there will be no confusion.

One man's trash.....

I'd say they're MFM.....mighty fine maters...regardless of their origin, or real identity. To the point where I will be planting no less than 35-40 of them in my garden for this year, I am that impressed.It's just my favorite tomato for the time being. :wink:

And hype....unfortunately that just comes along with marketing 101 these days, not just from seed cos. Jeep Commanders can't really drive under the ocean, no matter how many sunroofs they put on them, and drinking a Mtn Dew and pointing my keyless remote at my hairy-legged buddy ain't gonna turn him into a hot lady...trust me, I tried . I "hype" them ( I prefer: "hold them in such high regard") because they make my tastebuds go "Wow, what a great tomato!"

I have plenty of seeds, so don't send anyone your money if you're still interested in trying them Kurt, a SASE'll do it. Or if you've ( or any other T'villers) got some BTD or Freckled Child, I'll mail yours out for same. I'd recommend them to anyone, especially BW lovers that don't get such prolific production in their region.

[Andrey_BY]

Yes, Carolyn, I don't like hype or blurbs too. And I'm very angry when somebody try to use the term "Rare Russian tomato" while changing original names just to get more bucks in USA or elsewhere.

But I have nothing against Nicholaevna (Nikolaevna). If it's so tasty and has so nice color I'm just happy you adore it so much, MtnMaters. And I'd like to make a trade with you for this variety even usually I don't like beefsteaks so much. I'm following with PM to you.

[MtnMaters]

Great Andrey, I was hoping you'd take some, so you can grow them out and tell us what they are most reminiscent of to you, as far as known varieties.

[COgarden]

Think of a BWs prettier sister that also holds a MENSA card, is somewhat aloof but somehow easier to get into the backseat, and there ya have it.

Now that is the kind of catalog blurb that will get my wallet out! It says nothing directly about tomatoes, but I don't care. Seriously, I love to hear about varieties that really get someone going. Even if they don't perform as well in my conditions, or taste as good to me personally. Mileage may vary, etc, etc, etc. I'd love to give these a try MtnMaters, please send me a PM with your mailing address and I'll get a SASE out to you. Thank you for the offer.

So, what exactly is the correct name for this one, "Nikolaevna", "Nicholaevna Rosovije", "Nikolaevna Rosovije", or something else all together?

Very interesting that what you have is not the same as what is listed with SSE.

Kurt

[cottonpicker]

Mtn... You've got a personal e-mail from me.

[MtnMaters]

Originally Posted by COgarden

Now that is the kind of catalog blurb that will get my wallet out! It says nothing directly about tomatoes, but I don't care.

I've missed my calling! Shoulda been an ad-man!
PM en route, Kurt.

The name.... ni-ni-nick, na-nick-nick nick nick-a-lev-ny-ya. I guess you'll only get that if you have children.
Heck, they're probably Burgess Giant Beefmasters for all I know. but I think the whole Rosovijie is just the Russian word for pink, isn't it?

[carolyn137]

I agree that what's important is how a variety tastes and produces but most importantly how it tastes. That's a given.

And with varieties from other countries where names are originally in the language of that country it's inevitable that there will be spelling variations for most of them as they pass from hand to hand thru folks who speak many other languages.

But my point was about some of the blurbs at Anioleka, for quite a few varieties that are not even varieties from other countries.

And I really don't understand, and never have, why there are separate websites for the same company offering the same varieties, as in Anioleka/Seedfest/UK. Yes, I know that it increases exposure if a person finds one and not the others, but I still wonder.

And yes, I do know one of the co-owners, Kelly, a bit, and two years ago she sent me the yellow cherry variety Cluj, from Romania, to trial, and I did.

Mtn, as for writing blurbs, I've been told that whether or not a variety "goes" in the SSE Yearbook is directly tied to what I write, as in glowing, or not. LOL I love writing blurbs, I really do, and I'm brutally honest, well, as honest as I can be, about the ones I list.

Since about 2000 I no longer list ones that others are listing, just new ones that are sent to me, and I have fun writing the blurbs. So rather than dealing with hundreds of blurbs as I did in the past, I'm down to only 24 lsited varieties, all new ones.

But I have to share with folks that I had real problems writing the blurbs for some of the varieties in my book. LOL I tended to use the same adjectives for taste, over and over. So the copy editor made a long list of adjectives and she and my regular Editor drove up from NYC to the Albany area one weekend and we locked ourselves away in the lab where I was teaching at the time and for most of the varieties we went thru I had to chose adjectives from that list.

It certainly was an interesting experience.

Soon I'll be writing some tomato blurbs for a new website being put up by Sandhill Preservation and I really look forward to that. Glenn has so little time to write and so many of the blurbs are so short, and Glenn writes them pretty much from memory and has so many others to write about his heirloom poultry, which is his big love, that you don't see much in those tomato blurbs.

It should be not only a challenge but fun to expand descriptions on many of those tomato varieties that I know well.

[montanamato]

Carolyn,

I look forward to Sandhill having a website and better descriptions of tomatoes, but....
I am sort of sad too. Over the past few years I have kind of enjoyed the lack of descriptions and found it fun to order something I had never heard about. Many of those choices turned out well, and for the others I chalked them up to experience. I even inadvertently tried many that were in your book, long before I knew of your book.
I guess I hate change. Now that I am a member of SSE, I can look some up and I know many who order from Glenn aren't members, or perhaps don't have the space to experiment. It seems all the popular favorites get so much discussion, that I like to try to find the unknown on occasion.
Just my thoughts...didn't mean to change the thread.
It was nice to get one catalog a year, that wasn't oozing with persuasive descriptions....
Jeanne

I hope to see "true spitter" behind Sandpoint!

[Andrey_BY]

Ni-ko-laa-ev-na Ro-zo-vye if we spelling, not writing Yes, the last means pink in Russian.

The name.... ni-ni-nick, na-nick-nick nick nick-a-lev-ny-ya. I guess you'll only get that if you have children.
Heck, they're probably Burgess Giant Beefmasters for all I know. but I think the whole Rosovijie is just the Russian word for pink, isn't it?[/quote]

[carolyn137]

Montana,

I hear you, I do, and don't worry about me enthusing about every variety.

After all, I can only write about those I know and have grown and many Glenn carries, as you know, are older CV's that I don't know and haven't grown.

And as it is, I'm not enthusiastic about many varieties, as you also know. Glenn tends to write what he gets in his sand and I do think it could be helpful to know that others may get something quite different depending on where they grow, what summer they made the observations in and so many other variables.

Too bad you don't have previous SSE Yearbooks, and I mean from the early 90's onward, to see what I'm capable of writing, as in negative.

I ran across one the other day where I said something like average indet, with average RL, with average size and average taste.

And if you read what I said about Krasnodar Titans in the current Yearbook you know that I don't enthuse about everything. When I suggest that a variety would best be used for canning only, that should send a message loud and clear.

As for Sandpoint being a spitter, I don't know if Glenn will let me say that b'c he happens to like it as an early.

And lets also remember that Glenn doesn't like to eat tomatoes.