On DTM, growing Indeterminates in Pots, and success

[nctomatoman]

What an interesting season this has been - already. Today I started picking some of the large fruited indeterminates that are growing in 10 gallon pots in my driveway.

First, days to maturity - based upon what I am seeing for tomatoes, peppers and eggplant, I really am convinced that the higher temperatures experienced by the roots when planted in pots leads to significantly advanced ripening times. Today I picked a Lillian's Yellow Heirloom (14 oz), a German heirloom sent to me by someone in central NC (16 oz), and tomorrow I expect to pick Stump of the World and Cherokee Purple (both will be at least 16 ounces - the ChP is likely to be 20 oz or more). These are from plants set in their final resting place on April 29...so we will be at about 70 days from transplant. This is pretty amazing for some of these varieties - esp. Lillian's Yellow.

Now I have been very attentive to the plants this year - watering typically twice per day (we have been very hot and dry), and fairly frequent feedling. I've not sprayed with anything - and in general, the indeterminates are very healthy (Only a few show a hint of yellowing foliage). These are being grown unpruned and staked - I estimate that on most plants there are at least 15-20 good sized tomatoes, so I expect 15-25 pounds of fruit per plant - this is on a par with tomatoes grown in the ground when I lived in PA and had good soil.

So, this has demonstrated a few worthwhile things - that you can grow anything in a pot (the 60 or so dwarfs in 5 gallon grow bags look quite incredible - the yield on those will be very good for the most part). That you can really advance maturity dates by growing in pots....that fruit size for pot grown plants will be equivalent for the most part to those grown in soil. And, judging from the few we've tasted, pot grown tomatoes lose nothing in flavor over garden grown equivalents.

Oh yes - and they are quite labor intensive.....a good drip irrigation system would certainly be a worthwhile addition!

Just a pic to share - you can see the 16 oz German heirloom and 14 oz Lillians in this shot - I've taken individual pics, but have yet to download them.

[Ruth_10]

Sometimes everything works out right and you have an outstanding season. It's what keeps one going in the years when the season stinks.

I learned my lesson last year regarding soil temperature. I put my mulch in first, then planted. I was a good two weeks later with respect to DTM than when I planted out first and then put mulch down two to three weeks later. That additional soil warming makes a huge difference.

[artis]

This year, I am growing Brandywine OTV, Black Cherry, Gregori's Altai, and Aunt Gertie's Gold in 10 gal pots with ProMix. I have already picked my first OTV, a couple of Black Cherries, and Gregori's Altai. It is my understanding that all four of these varieties are regarded as large indeterminates. Black Cherry is probably the most vigorous tomato plant I have ever seen.

The biggest problem with large indeterminates in small pots has been the requirement for very heavy fertilizing (several times per week) and watering (at least once a day when sunny).

Another major problem for me is supporting the plants. I had to top them at 7 feet because they were starting to look intimidating and were becoming dangerously unstable during rainstorms.

[carolyn137]

This is pretty amazing for some of these varieties - esp. Lillian's Yellow.


*****

Really amazing Craig b'c Lillian has always been one of the very last to ripen for me.

I'm wondering if I shouldn't look into those grow bags myself since I've now converted my large raised bed into a beautiful to be perennial garden, but I left room for six tomato plants at one end and want to get them out of there for next year and complete planting that bed with probably more miniature roses and heirloom dianthuses.

The rest of my few tomato plants are in large pots here and there, with Sara's Galapagos at the end of the deck where I can get to it after exiting my car with my walker.

My next X-ray is Tuesday and if all is well I'll be allowed to bear weight as tolerated with the walker but am told it will take several weeks to reverse the effects of no weight bearing for two months. A few associated other problems I won't discuss here as well.

Anyhoo, those grow bags might work well on my deck which is very large.

And I say I this and I that, but I really mean I tell Freda what to do and she does it and I pay her.

[tomatoguy]

Craig,

I think the attentive part is the key to growing in smaller containers. I wouldn't try growing in anything less than 15 gallons here because I can't be around to water them twice a day. Over the years, I haven't noticed much difference in DTM between the container and garden plants. This year, though, Earl's Faux, in a container was first. The problem here, and I believe it is also due to heating of the soil, is that my container plants play out much sooner than the ones in the garden. Size of the plants are usually about 1/3 of the ones in garden by volume and production is reduced by a similar factor. They just don't seem to like the August heat in Tennessee and that is with 20 gallon containers. The exception I have stumbled onto is New Big Dwarf, which seems to really thrive in containers, producing plants that were 7 1/2 and 7 feet tall in the last two years.

mater

[nctomatoman]

Yes - if my wife and I couldn't do the frequent watering, the plants would be in trouble - in years I've not been as attentive, BER has been a problem. And, yes, in the past I've found them to go by the wayside relatively early...but since I am double cropping this year, we will be in tomatoes till frost.

By the way, if you have New Big Dwarf at 7 feet tall, you don't have New Big Dwarf (it should top out at 3-4 feet or so)...what was your seed source?

[tomatoguy]

The first year was from a seed trade and the second year was from Victory. If they aren't NBD, I'm not sure what they were. The fruit was thinskinned, pink, very tasty and tangy with a nice BW-like texture. They tended to catface early in the season and also had a tendency to be shaped as to pinch the stems at the top, making removal from the plant a bit tricky. I have one this year, also from Victory stock that was a late start and so far it is only about 2 feet tall. My avatar photo is actually a top view of the NBD I grew in '05. Maybe you are correct or maybe things just grow a little large in the local conditions. I didn't expect a 15 1/2 foot long Granny Cantrell's German Red, either.

mater

[Patrina_Pepperina]

Craig, I'm a tad jealous because I still don't have good success in my pots, which I put down to inadequate potting mix, fertilisation and watering, that's all But I'll keep trying!

PP

[squibT]

Hey nctomatoman,

Nice job...

<<So, this has demonstrated a few worthwhile things - that you can grow anything in a pot>>

What size pot did you use for the bannan plant (LOL)

What soil mix are you using...I am using bark mulch, peat, compost, steer manure, chicken grit and pearlite...with a dash of Osmocote....oh...and some dried witchety grubs...(just kidding about the witchety grubs but not the rest)

Gotta water 2 x a day in the hot weather but my EB's are almost worry free

squibT

[montanamato]

Craig....I grow in pots manily because of the same conclusions you have come to...My plants mature earlier, and for those who live in short season places that means vine ripe tomatoes instead of green ones pulled at frost....Lots of years I also get vine ripened from the garden in good numbers , but the containers are insurance...

My husband has always wondered why I plant containers when I have so much garden space...This year my plants are so big and lush that are in containers, he asked why I bother putting plants in the garden...My container plants get much larger thatn my garden plants...They don't get near the wind, they get shade after 4pm, and are in much lighter soil....
Jeanne

[nctomatoman]

The additional benefit I've found going to ALL pots for peppers, tomatoes and eggplant is that I've doubled my garden space by utilizing my concrete driveway. We are enjoying very much the nightly means that include summer squash, beans, and chard, loved our spring lettuce - and eagerly anticipate the later summer joys of home grown melons and corn! And - I don't have to climb around the garden lugging a ladder and banging in stakes - or watching plants go over in a rain/wind storm - or get depressed at the low yield obtained/high incidence of disease for all of that work. Everything I have growing on my traditional garden space this year is loving it! Even the Moon and Stars melons (which I've heard are quite susceptible to Fusarium wilt) are motoring along looking 100% healthy. I think we will pick our first Passport melon this week!

I just harvested an 18 oz Cherokee Purple just now, and a one pound Stump of the World - both in about 70 days from transplant!

[honu]

Craig, What kind of tomato support system do you use for pots on concrete driveway?

[nctomatoman]

I am using the green plastic covered, 8 foot long metal core stakes that I can purchase at Home Depot - the pots are against the lawn, so I can drive the stakes into the ground and push the pot up against them (I put the plant in the pot off center, so it is easily trained to the stake). for the dwarfs in the center, they have 4 foot tall green/metal stakes (and it is not the best method, as many are toppling over!)

[honu]

Craig, I got those same green plastic metal cored ones at HD here too, thinking they would be stronger than bamboo with the metal core and all, but the metal just snapped from the weight of the plant. Looking inside the break, it's just a very thin hollow metal cylinder, and those stakes are quite pricey here. Here is my Green Grape from last year, on the ground after the support snapped.

[Jonathan_E]

Craig and all,

This is the first year I've tried containers for tomatoes in ten years. I only did it because I read about the earthbox, with its water reservoir. Because I got my heirloom seeds in late this year, I put some hybrid seedlings in the Earthbox around in late May. It's now July 11 and I just picked my first, an 8 ouncer from a Bush Celebrity. The Big Beef now has 29 fruit on it of various sizes, some full-grown. Pic attached.

I think the even watering wicked up from the reservoir is superior to top-down watering. I'm attaching an interesting article on the dynamics of watering in containers. I've only had to refill the water reservoir once a day at most, even when we had temperatures in the 90's last week.

The problem with the Earthbox is that it costs $45 with shipping. But I just finished making my first home-grown variety, with components that cost me $15 or so. Pic also attached. I used red plastic mulch, as I did in the soil last year, although last year was such a disaster that I'm not sure if the purported advantage of the red wave-length light reflected onto the plants did any good. I also made the reservoir bigger than it is in the store-bought variety by using 8-inch supports to hold up the screen that separates the growing medium from the water.

Anyway, I must say that I may soon convert entirely to containers. It sure does solve a number of issues, like diseases over-wintering in the soil.

Best,

Jonathan